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UKF September patch discussion

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26 Aug 2019, 09:25 AM
#141
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3

One mistake sprice made is making 4 Stugs instead of something like 1 Panther and 2 Stugs. Stugs go down very quickly when focus fired, so you need something of a meatshield infront to keep them safe, they're terrible brawlers against anything heavier than a medium.

Not having any paks for TWP also didn't help. If he still had the rest of his army, he could've kept the Churchills from moving up to his Stugs unchallenged, allowing the Stugs to keep using their range advantage.

That said, I'm normally against limits, but a limit of 2 for Panthers and Churchills wouldn't hurt.
26 Aug 2019, 14:02 PM
#142
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

UKF

Infantry Sections

The damage to 14 leads to Overkill a difference in theoretical and practical DPS ( 20%) when Tommies are not equipped a bren. That means that bren upgrade will actually increase the effectiveness of tommies more. That would Imo that should be avoided.
Suggestion:
Either reduce damage to 12 or add different weapon for the 5 member that does less damage (maybe a pistol/sten that will be replaced by a bren or a scoped enfield)
Or one could redesign the upgrade to work similar to Ostheer's one, so then unlock allow an upgrade with MU that gives a single Bren and increase size to 5.

Imo pyrotechnics upgrade need a better design. How about giving 1-2 scoped enfield taking up all slot (maybe adding a time ability that increases range to 40-45 to act as sniper counter), allowing smoke artillery from base first gun and maybe allowing a sniper shot.


Vickers

Suggestion:
Maybe move bonus to vet 1?


Sniper

solid change


Comet

Suggestion:
Remove grenade or move it vet 1 to much Churchill


Cromwell

Solid changes.
Suggestion:
Maybe test a faster reload in close range.


Firefly

Solid change.
Suggestion:
Bring mid inline with other TDs.
Lock Tulips behind hammer/anvil


Churchill Mk.VII

Solid change.
Suggestion:
Lower Rear armor. The PzIV should have better chance to penetrate rear armor.
Unit is too durable to have "free" concealing smoke either replace concealing smoke commando smoke providing cover bonus or move to veterancy 1-2


Emplacements

Solid change.

Churchill Crocodile / Churchill AVRE

Solid change.
Suggestion:
keep CP or lower by 1-2 and decrease cost. This units come too early in 2vs2 now.

1.2 Advanced Emplacements Regiment

price a bit steep maybe fuel to 10?


1.2 Bofors


The new DPS seem to be allot lower

68.1 55.8 43.5 37.5 33.6
38.2 31.3 24.4 21.0 18.8

The nerf would make sense more like 25%-15% for start.
26 Aug 2019, 17:46 PM
#143
avatar of Chocoboknight88

Posts: 393

The damage to 14 leads to Overkill a difference in theoretical and practical DPS ( 20%) when Tommies are not equipped a bren. That means that bren upgrade will actually increase the effectiveness of tommies more. That would Imo that should be avoided.


I'm having trouble understanding the logic behind this statement. Can you please clarify?
26 Aug 2019, 18:03 PM
#144
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 556



I'm having trouble understanding the logic behind this statement. Can you please clarify?


He is saying double bren was giving up x2 16 damage lee-enfields but after the changes it will give up x2 14 damage lee-enfields. Considering IS seriously overperforming it looks like intended nerf will turn into a buff.
26 Aug 2019, 18:10 PM
#145
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



I'm having trouble understanding the logic behind this statement. Can you please clarify?

In order to kill a 80 model with 16 damage you need 5 hits dealing total of 80
In order to kill a 80 model with 14 damage you need 6 hits dealing total of 90

That is 10 damage overkill or the DPS has been lowered by 5/6= 0.83.

Now if Tommies get a Bren that does 5 damage the overkill can become less when an Enfield and Bren is firing on the same entity.
26 Aug 2019, 22:26 PM
#146
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 784

It's still a statistical overall nerf though. In what universe does this constitute a buff? And wasn't the entire idea that Tommies were performing too well without weapon upgrades? Why should the teching to brens and putting them on squads be discouraged?

The durability nerf is in any case more significant than the rifle one anyway, and I'm surprised nobody has really talked about it much.
26 Aug 2019, 23:25 PM
#147
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

yes it is nerf. My point is that it has more impact when the squad has no weapon upgrades and less once they get brens.

It can be designed better.
27 Aug 2019, 01:40 AM
#148
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 818

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Aug 2019, 23:25 PMVipper
yes it is nerf. My point is that it has more impact when the squad has no weapon upgrades and less once they get brens.

It can be designed better.


It seems like thats the intention though. Tommies with double bren are good later, but Tommies early game are unstoppable early vs grens and volks. Tommie vet doesn't keep pace later though and they come back down to earth compared to other infantry units. By forcing earlier Upgrades a brit player sacrifices AEC timing, section upgrades smoke, mines ect. and will ultimately make it harder to spam tommies as effectively
27 Aug 2019, 02:05 AM
#149
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



It seems like thats the intention though. Tommies with double bren are good later, but Tommies early game are unstoppable early vs grens and volks. Tommie vet doesn't keep pace later though and they come back down to earth compared to other infantry units. By forcing earlier Upgrades a brit player sacrifices AEC timing, section upgrades smoke, mines ect. and will ultimately make it harder to spam tommies as effectively

One can lower damage to 12 adjust ROF/Accuracy and better design the performance of the squad.
27 Aug 2019, 05:56 AM
#150
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1

I do some further test with the bofor 1.2, now i can move a Volk straight in and toss a flame nade then retreat with 3-4 model, i did it 3,4 time in a row until the bofor is destroyed in cheat mod with fow on.

I see why most axis player said bofor 1.2 is solid change.
27 Aug 2019, 06:12 AM
#151
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

I do some further test with the bofor 1.2, now i can move a Volk straight in and toss a flame nade then retreat with 3-4 model, i did it 3,4 time in a row until the bofor is destroyed in cheat mod with fow on.

I see why most axis player said bofor 1.2 is solid change.

The change is supposed to be so that gun and animation are in sync not to change the Performance of the weapon.
27 Aug 2019, 06:22 AM
#152
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Aug 2019, 06:12 AMVipper

The change is supposed to be so that gun and animation are in sync not to change the Performance of the weapon.


So a 15 fuel tech, 30 fuel buil emplacement is supposed to be countered by Volk only? I can see that the gun fire rate now match its animations and i'm not against that but its performance is horrible now. At the very least it should suppress the squad that trying to close in, but it was not, some time it suppress after the flame nade was out, some time is didn't suppress at all.
27 Aug 2019, 06:24 AM
#153
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8



I'm having trouble understanding the logic behind this statement. Can you please clarify?

It means real DPS is lower then theoretical DPS numbers point out to because some of the damage is wasted.
27 Aug 2019, 06:36 AM
#154
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 556

I do some further test with the bofor 1.2, now i can move a Volk straight in and toss a flame nade then retreat with 3-4 model, i did it 3,4 time in a row until the bofor is destroyed in cheat mod with fow on.

I see why most axis player said bofor 1.2 is solid change.


Change is not good IMO. Just remove the stupid brace ability and everyone is fine.
27 Aug 2019, 07:04 AM
#155
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

I do some further test with the bofor 1.2, now i can move a Volk straight in and toss a flame nade then retreat with 3-4 model, i did it 3,4 time in a row until the bofor is destroyed in cheat mod with fow on.

I see why most axis player said bofor 1.2 is solid change.


You sure? My Infantry were being absolutely shredded by Bofor, I couldn't even get a shot off with my Panzerschreck Panzerfusiliers without risking the entire 6 man unit.
27 Aug 2019, 07:06 AM
#156
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1



You sure? My Infantry were being absolutely shredded by Bofor, I couldn't even get a shot off with my Panzerschreck Panzerfusiliers without risking the entire 6 man unit.



Cant be more sure, i have replay of the test.
27 Aug 2019, 07:24 AM
#157
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



So a 15 fuel tech, 30 fuel buil emplacement is supposed to be countered by Volk only? I can see that the gun fire rate now match its animations and i'm not against that but its performance is horrible now. At the very least it should suppress the squad that trying to close in, but it was not, some time it suppress after the flame nade was out, some time is didn't suppress at all.

well you seem to be right there seems to be a big reduction in DPS

68.1 55.8 43.5 37.5 33.6
38.2 31.3 24.4 21.0 18.8

Its probably too much. I did have time to check in cheat but I read somewhere it mostly done animation reason.

Will edit. Thanks!
27 Aug 2019, 07:39 AM
#158
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Aug 2019, 07:24 AMVipper

well you seem to be right there seems to be a big reduction in DPS

68.1 55.8 43.5 37.5 33.6
38.2 31.3 24.4 21.0 18.8

Its probably too much. I did have time to check in cheat but I read somewhere it mostly done animation reason.

Will edit. Thanks!


I think Make it suppress and AA more reliable, increase traverse speed and improved tracking will make it viable without make it have to shred everything.
27 Aug 2019, 07:48 AM
#159
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3



I think Make it suppress and AA more reliable, increase traverse speed and improved tracking will make it viable without make it have to shred everything.


Sounds like a good idea. Bofors suppressing a squad while doing big health damage is better than it just simply evaporizing squads in 5 seconds.
27 Aug 2019, 08:04 AM
#160
avatar of miragefla
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13

I know one suggestion in the background has been to just raise it to 40 damage, but probably allowing it to better control the zone versus infantry with more suppression would probably be better since 20mm flaks from the 251 and emplacement.

Not easy to determine, but maybe if we can allow UKF to at least get a minor refund on emplacements it'd help.
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