Login

russian armor

tier 0 and tier 1 OKW rework

ddd
14 Jul 2019, 14:59 PM
#61
avatar of ddd

Posts: 520 | Subs: 1

Give volks shreck upgrade. They dont snipe models anymore so its balanced.
14 Jul 2019, 16:11 PM
#62
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 874

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2019, 14:59 PMddd
Give volks shreck upgrade. They dont snipe models anymore so its balanced.


And how are you gonna fight without a mainline? Are we gonna go back to Falls and Fusilliers?
15 Jul 2019, 17:55 PM
#63
avatar of Domine

Posts: 431


mp 40s can perfectly deal with infantry after the rework, stg are just an overall weapon buff at all ranges and make them counter cons at all ranges, with the mp 40s now they have to chose and it's better in certain situations, like vs cons u can chose to win either at long or close , but vs brits u don't really have an answer, same vs rifle, with the mp40s u get the close range advantage now


Most gun upgrades are a buff at all ranges. Where do people get the idea from that a more expensive unit with a techlocked muni upgrade should lose to a cheaper unit without a munitions upgrade?
15 Jul 2019, 20:31 PM
#64
avatar of DerbyHat

Posts: 1026 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jul 2019, 17:55 PMDomine


Most gun upgrades are a buff at all ranges. Where do people get the idea from that a more expensive unit with a techlocked muni upgrade should lose to a cheaper unit without a munitions upgrade?


There are indeed other weapon upgrades like BAR's, Conscript SVT's, 5 men Grenadier upgrade, Ober LMG's and arguably Ober STG's (if you consider cover bonus) that do the very same thing.

I personally don't think it's a bad thing per say and makes Volks more unique than just giving them LMG's like most other mainline infantry have. Having a stock MP40 upgrade for Volks and requiring Obers for long range damage like OP suggests is also an option, but it would require allot of tinkering with stats/tech which I think is not worth it at this point.
16 Jul 2019, 02:27 AM
#65
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3232 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jul 2019, 17:55 PMDomine


Most gun upgrades are a buff at all ranges.
it didn't start that way though. Upgrades had tradeoffs. Con ppsh reduced long range output, lmgs were adjusted to be worse upclose and required stationary to fire. AT meant gutted AI. All upgrades needed to be in friendly territory (even when partisans the OG infiltration unit had its durability upgrade, it had to hit friendly lines to do it)
Now you can get upgrades that are good at all ranges, improve output on the go and do it in enemy territory.
Or improve with long ranged focused lmgs that fire on the move...
Hell I'm surprised they havnt found a way to make the cover denying power of the flamethrower to be saturated and compartmentalized into an as needed basis--oh... Wait, what's that there those volks are throwing from a mile away? Do I sit in the cover now and burn or suffer the ever firing ever closing STGs now that my defensive point has been rendered completely useless?
There is a constant dilution of the tactical choices players need to make because upgrades are NOT optional. If you don't get them you will lose (or at least have one hell of an uphill battle) because your enemy certainly won't forgo their upgrades, why would they? It's a flat buff with literally no reason not to. It makes the game easier.
Munitions should be about adding tactical variety, off maps, cheeky abilities, secure critical points-or flush them out... To lay traps. Munitions should be a way to raise the skill cap and separate the men from the boys so to speak by making great use of a versatile resource. Instead we have a saturation of dps buffing goodness that makes walking at your enemy with overwhelming firepower more rewarding than ever...
16 Jul 2019, 15:40 PM
#66
avatar of astonhodge

Posts: 10

I really like the changing of the opening MP! This twinned with the power of the sturmpio I think is personally quite biased for no real reason. No faction can currently compete in small tight maps with stock units from 0 than the double Pio wipe squad. Its strange its lasted this long. I know on 1v1 or 2v2 you can go around this starting strat, but in 3v3 or 4v4 you basically lock down each lane with the manoeuvrability and killing power. I like the weapon change and cost change too! I do not like the double Shrek tough! This much AT on a starting unit is rather silly. One is fine! Im guessing you play lots of Axis but its nice to have a choice as Allies to go for an early light Vehicle strat. Not have the whole strat countered by one unit that can burst strike every light in the game in one shot, all for just 100 muni. JUST NO! Extra man aswell...Why? You after a unit that you start with that has same AT killing power as Ost, at a cheeper cost AAAAAND and extra man. Again NO, too much.

Volks upgrades look better spreading the rec acc over 2 vet levels.

As my previous above, having t0 access to AT like a Pak40 basically wipes Allies choices to go early Vehicle rush. This wouldn't be healthy for the game at t0. t1 maybe or even better add this Pak40 copy paste to a few commanders! Would be great to see OKW with a better AT gun replacement from 2CP (similar to Sov one) or t1 onwards.

Great Ideas Stug ;)
16 Jul 2019, 15:55 PM
#67
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3968

I really like the changing of the opening MP! This twinned with the power of the sturmpio I think is personally quite biased for no real reason. No faction can currently compete in small tight maps with stock units from 0 than the double Pio wipe squad. Its strange its lasted this long. I know on 1v1 or 2v2 you can go around this starting strat, but in 3v3 or 4v4 you basically lock down each lane with the manoeuvrability and killing power. I like the weapon change and cost change too! I do not like the double Shrek tough! This much AT on a starting unit is rather silly. One is fine! Im guessing you play lots of Axis but its nice to have a choice as Allies to go for an early light Vehicle strat. Not have the whole strat countered by one unit that can burst strike every light in the game in one shot, all for just 100 muni. JUST NO! Extra man aswell...Why? You after a unit that you start with that has same AT killing power as Ost, at a cheeper cost AAAAAND and extra man. Again NO, too much.

Volks upgrades look better spreading the rec acc over 2 vet levels.

As my previous above, having t0 access to AT like a Pak40 basically wipes Allies choices to go early Vehicle rush. This wouldn't be healthy for the game at t0. t1 maybe or even better add this Pak40 copy paste to a few commanders! Would be great to see OKW with a better AT gun replacement from 2CP (similar to Sov one) or t1 onwards.

Great Ideas Stug ;)
i literally wrote the upgrades are mutually exclusive, so if u go for 2 Sheryl that means no stg or 5th man , so they become worse pfusiler with 1 less man and 0 ai (as they have pioneer mp40)

Bye I don’t get why it would spell doom for early vehicles , I mean it can’t retreat and has much slower cloak
16 Jul 2019, 16:44 PM
#68
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911


Lights molesting you? Volks


I dont know about you, but the people i play against arnt retarded and are able to keep a light vehicle out of 15 range. Plus I dont recall volks being able to scare away a clown car for the first five minutes.

I suspect that the rest of your points are equally rose tinted.
16 Jul 2019, 18:05 PM
#69
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3232 | Subs: 1



I dont know about you, but the people i play against arnt retarded and are able to keep a light vehicle out of 15 range. Plus I dont recall volks being able to scare away a clown car for the first five minutes.

I suspect that the rest of your points are equally rose tinted.

It will keep them from parking on top of you though. Anybody remember how great the newest faction was when it didn't have snares to defend against lights? Quick tech light vehicle counter. Buh bye any med truck play at all...
I'm not saying that they are Shreks, but to say that they are not going to keep lights zoned is a lie.
16 Jul 2019, 18:11 PM
#70
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911


It will keep them from parking on top of you though.


And that matters how? Unless if you're a clown car, you dont care about being parked on top of a volk squad.

And well yeah, they will keep lights in the range 15-45 zone, but lights dont care about being close to do damage.
16 Jul 2019, 18:43 PM
#71
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3232 | Subs: 1



And that matters how? Unless if you're a clown car, you dont care about being parked on top of a volk squad.

And well yeah, they will keep lights in the range 15-45 zone, but lights dont care about being close to do damage.


More damage from mgs as well add up. Why not if there is no threat?
And they can't chase after a retreating squad if there are volks in the way. Without the snare okw would be absolutely at the mercy of lights without a puma the same way brits were without the AEC.

Easily half the power of a snare is the enemy knowing its there and playing accordingly. Can't be too aggressive or it can backfire.
edo
20 Jul 2019, 20:06 PM
#72
avatar of edo

Posts: 13

Slight problem here :
- Replace T0 Puppchen with Pak38/50mm (that kills heavies) : AT improvedx2
- Give Sturmpioneer 2x PanzerShrek instead of 1x : AT improvedx2
- Give Sturmpioneer Teller mine. : AT improvedx2
- Make Sturmpioneer 5x men (+1)
- Make PzFusilier : 6x men (+1) Give Teller mine/4x AT Guns: AT improvedx2
* KEEP * VolksGrenadier PzFaust : AT Same
- Make Teching cheaper...

So your proposal to lower OKW power is to DOUBLE THE AT POWER? :) Really?

Also stats-wise, the American M1 57mm is equivalent to the PAK40/75. So
+300% pen bonus is enough to pen a IS-2 100% of the time, and take out
Jackson with a T0 no fuel unit.

...


i agree, and also debuff a bit russian penals that actually are really OP
actual conscripts are more powerful than volks
20 Jul 2019, 20:13 PM
#73
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13772 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Jul 2019, 20:06 PMedo


i agree, and also debuff a bit russian penals that actually are really OP
actual conscripts are more powerful than volks


Most expensive mainline inf will perform best and will always be outnumbered by cheaper infantries.
There is nothing to nerf, because there is nothing op about them.
Just L2P.
20 Jul 2019, 21:40 PM
#74
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3232 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Jul 2019, 20:13 PMKatitof


Most expensive mainline inf will perform best and will always be outnumbered by cheaper infantries.
There is nothing to nerf, because there is nothing op about them.
Just L2P.


Eh. I'd argue that that soon is too soon for elite infantry which creates a balance issue there. But also the easy transition into AT is problematic imo. I'd rather Soviet be unmatched for map control, but pace penals via a munitions cost.
Basicly they would be cons but scaling towards attack instead of defensive stats via vet and able to upgrade further into AI or AT mutually exclusive.

To a more extreme level it would be like having Obers in t0. It wouldn't be an issue if they are outnumbered when they can thrash everything they face and easily

The MP only nature of penals is just mad worse by needing 160mp simply to have a squad that can fight. When imo Soviet shouldn't be struggling for map control, but outfitting their infantry instead being their bottleneck would fit better
21 Jul 2019, 03:50 AM
#75
avatar of Noinga

Posts: 27

oh yeah! Cant wait to play me some allies and have to fight IR STG obers at the 7 min mark!
21 Jul 2019, 14:00 PM
#76
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3968

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Jul 2019, 03:50 AMNoinga
oh yeah! Cant wait to play me some allies and have to fight IR STG obers at the 7 min mark!
obv those would be locked too
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest
1v1 Map Unveil Event VonIvan vs Brosras

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • Oberkommando West flag N1cko
  • Oberkommando West flag Scotch1
  • Soviets flag Frosty
  • Soviets flag Beatricks Swire
uploaded by Frost

Board Info

173 users are online: 3 members and 170 guests
ShadowLinkX37, DevM, Grining Cat
191 posts in the last 24h
1197 posts in the last week
5396 posts in the last month
Registered members: 68478
Welcome our newest member, Younanaq90
Most online: 918 users on 27 Oct 2019, 01:03 AM