I knew people would be asking for UA nerfs within a week.
Why didn't you guys complained about this before so it could be "fixed" before it went live?
Echelon Grenades
17 Jun 2019, 22:36 PM
#21
Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1
17 Jun 2019, 22:37 PM
#22
Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8
I knew people would be asking for UA nerfs within a week.
Why didn't you guys complained about this before so it could be "fixed" before it went live?
Because people interested enough to install preview actually read patch notes and knew clear, glaring weakness of them.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
17 Jun 2019, 22:41 PM
#23
Posts: 3260
I knew people would be asking for UA nerfs within a week.
Why didn't you guys complained about this before so it could be "fixed" before it went live?
I'm not asking for nerfs. My whole argument is this ability is somehow simultaneously really weak and super annoying.
Hence I'm suggesting replacing it with something that doesn't require overheating the opponent's micro to achieve anything.
17 Jun 2019, 22:47 PM
#24
Posts: 959
There is a mechanic for them specifically for that issue.
Suppressed RETs will not shoot accurate nades.
If you are flanked, even CEs would hardcounter you.
This doesn't actually address my comment; you can't suppress through smoke and LOS blockers.
I also didn't mention flanking - which, of course, is going to counter an MG.
For example, by not sitting at max range and getting inside dead zone of RETs? They aren't going to do much with these carbines of theirs.
This works in a vacuum, sure, but that's exceedingly rare. Realistically they're behind some rifles, likely with double BARs - closing in from max range isn't an option; in fact, sitting at max range in that situation is what you need to do, since LMG grens only win it range.
And both are projectiles that go over LOS blockers.
Mechanically they are exact the same.
Balance of them is not comparable as they serve 2 different purposes.
In fact, all grenades behave that way, regardless how you launch them.
Sure, and Gdot and I were pointing out that the 'balance' right now isn't remotely fair. They can both shoot over LOS blockers, but the cost/effort involved is massively disproportionate.
Opinions reflect all team modes (not 1v1)
I often edit my posts several times after posting
I often edit my posts several times after posting
17 Jun 2019, 23:11 PM
#25
Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1
I'm not asking for nerfs. My whole argument is this ability is somehow simultaneously really weak and super annoying.
Hence I'm suggesting replacing it with something that doesn't require overheating the opponent's micro to achieve anything.
The rest of the thread seem more keen on nerfs.
Oh well, I didn't expect UA to last longer than Recon, after it won an event.
17 Jun 2019, 23:45 PM
#26
Posts: 1165 | Subs: 1
That's the point of rifle nades.
Have you ever played ost?
Yes, I play both factions.
OST rifle nades are singular, aimed and cost munitions per shot.
These are free once initially upgraded, longer ranger and auto fire.
Reduce the range. Don't buy the fanboi drama.
17 Jun 2019, 23:50 PM
#27
Posts: 5279
I prefer the timed ability route and making them cheaper to acquire as compensation. Even slightly longer range in a pit would be better than roaming micro inflicters.
#stalinwept
18 Jun 2019, 01:56 AM
#28
Posts: 45
Permanently BannedReduce the range or rate of fire/scatter + make them unable to fire from houses. i dont want to move away from green cover every 4-5 seconds to dodge nades while under fire from Rifles..and lets not talk about suppressed squads.
and yeah they have high minimal range but theyre also usually supported by rifles, 50 cals or better yet, rangers. if he teched nades then your mgs later on will be useless aswell as okw because of smoke..oh yeah also they shoot over literally every shotblocker
and yeah they have high minimal range but theyre also usually supported by rifles, 50 cals or better yet, rangers. if he teched nades then your mgs later on will be useless aswell as okw because of smoke..oh yeah also they shoot over literally every shotblocker
18 Jun 2019, 02:04 AM
#29
Posts: 784
Should make it a free targeted ability once it's upgraded.
20 second cooldown.
Requires just as much micro from the user as the guy on the receiving end. Nerfs blobbed REs. Seriously, 2 RE with nades and one rifleman to protect them is massively cancerous.
Auto-firing grenades on infantry is a really awful precedent to set. Can you give a reason why this ability should be the only ability that auto fires? It was different when they were locked to the fighting pit. Make this a free targeted ability so it actually involves some skill.
I agree except that instead of a free ability, it should be a 1 for 1 copy of the Ostheer rifle grenade in every regard except no impact detonation. This way it still achieves the design function of being a building clearing weapon pack.
At the current damage, even as a free ability, there really isnt any reason to take it seriously if you're only firing one every 20 seconds. Could reduce the package price a bit since you'll be paying munitions for each shot.
18 Jun 2019, 04:13 AM
#30
Posts: 3053
I think they're interesting from a gimmick/flavor standpoint, but I would rather see them as a targeted manual ability (for free since they're not a great grenade comparatively). That at least forces some micro on the USF player.
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18 Jun 2019, 05:54 AM
#31
Posts: 495 | Subs: 1
I do find it funny how the new WM commander and new USF commander totally flip the infantry dynamic between the two factions by making USF better at the long range fight with RE riflegrenade spam supported by Riflemen winning at long range and PanzerGrenadiers supported by Assault Grenadiers winning the up close battle.
If you struggle with RE riflegrenades, try building PanzerGrenadiers.
If you struggle with RE riflegrenades, try building PanzerGrenadiers.
“Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Marines don't have that problem.” ― Ronald Reagan
Semper Fi
Semper Fi
18 Jun 2019, 06:11 AM
#32
Posts: 789
I agree that giving them the flamethrower upgrade instead would be better
Or just make rifle nades deal bonus damage to units in cover and less to units out of cover, just like flamethrowers.
Or just make rifle nades deal bonus damage to units in cover and less to units out of cover, just like flamethrowers.
Most of my ideas are probably bad, - but I try and share lots of them
and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
One can hope
and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
One can hope
18 Jun 2019, 08:06 AM
#33
Posts: 591 | Subs: 1
There's no balance reason to need to change these. They're niche and have their own limits.
The only real complaint here is simply that a player doesn't want to have to deal with them, which isn't a problem.
Mortars do the exact same job but with better range and no reaction times. RE grenades allow your opponent more room to mitigate damage if they can keep up the micro to do so. Not a problem.
The only real complaint here is simply that a player doesn't want to have to deal with them, which isn't a problem.
Mortars do the exact same job but with better range and no reaction times. RE grenades allow your opponent more room to mitigate damage if they can keep up the micro to do so. Not a problem.
18 Jun 2019, 08:43 AM
#34
Posts: 563
Rifle grenades are not induvidually so bad but when massed they are borderline broken. I was playing a match last day, and my opponent had gone for 6-7 rear echelon, all equipped with rifle grenades. I tried mgs to counter them, but the wave of grenade they fired just absolutely wiped every mg team i attempted to use. of course lategame blob counters work, but early on they are really annoying.
"Pain is almost euphoric sam!"
18 Jun 2019, 08:45 AM
#35
Posts: 591 | Subs: 1
Rifle grenades are not induvidually so bad but when massed they are borderline broken. I was playing a match last day, and my opponent had gone for 6-7 rear echelon, all equipped with rifle grenades. I tried mgs to counter them, but the wave of grenade they fired just absolutely wiped every mg team i attempted to use. of course lategame blob counters work, but early on they are really annoying.
A single squad of panzergrens. That's all it takes, buddy. They do jack to maving units and have a huge mimimum range.
18 Jun 2019, 10:23 AM
#36
Posts: 4474
yea even 1 pioneer might beat them if they don't activate volley fire
A single squad of panzergrens. That's all it takes, buddy. They do jack to maving units and have a huge mimimum range.
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
18 Jun 2019, 10:39 AM
#37
Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1
A single squad of panzergrens. That's all it takes, buddy. They do jack to maving units and have a huge mimimum range.
Thanks for the advice. You seem to be very experienced with ostheer
18 Jun 2019, 11:46 AM
#38
Posts: 3260
There's no balance reason to need to change these. They're niche and have their own limits.
The USF ambulance used to be an activated ability, like a Infantry Section aura.
You could get more efficiency out of your healing by using the aura, then the moment it finished, debarking the medics.
Relic changed it to a a toggle because this was an irritating mechanic. It made the game more fiddly without actually adding any depth to it.
Likewise, these RE grenades are a bad flamer which makes the opponent do a little quick-time-event to mitigate the damage.
Wouldn't you prefer a targeted ability that actually does respectable damage and isn't easier to dodge than a KT crush?
18 Jun 2019, 13:23 PM
#39
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
I knew people would be asking for UA nerfs within a week.
Why didn't you guys complained about this before so it could be "fixed" before it went live?
The problem with RE grenades was pointed out in many cases before the patch went live. The same thing happened M-42 and Valentine, the issues where pointed out befor the previous revamp was released.
Relic seemed to prefer to ignore the warnings and to patch the units in later stage.
And I am not sure what is the point of this post. This is either a problem or not. If it is a problem it should simply be fixed regardless of when it become apparent.
18 Jun 2019, 14:19 PM
#40
Posts: 464
yeah garrison hopping with the RE nades forces your opponet to constantly move, abandon the position or bring in a flamer (good luck WFA and UKF). The grenades themselves aren't amazing but they get the job done, they're just annoying as hell.Yeah microing is annoying
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