Anyone else think grenades should have a 2 model kill cap like mines do?
Combine it with much faster wind-ups/detonation timers and cover bypassing (for some reason directional cover damage reduction works on them) and they'll be much more generally useful rather than squadwipe bombs that only work if the opponent's not looking.
Grenade Model Cap
7 May 2019, 16:25 PM
#1
Posts: 3260
7 May 2019, 16:26 PM
#2
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
That'd make them even worse vs garrisons and entrenchments, which they're supposed to clear.
7 May 2019, 16:29 PM
#3
Posts: 3260
That'd make them even worse vs garrisons and entrenchments, which they're supposed to clear.
Only a kill cap. Not a damage cap.
No garrison cover damage reduction means they'd deal the double damage they do now, and faster detonation timers means no grenade dodging.
7 May 2019, 16:36 PM
#4
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
Only a kill cap. Not a damage cap.
No garrison cover damage reduction means they'd deal the double damage they do now, and faster detonation timers means no grenade dodging.
wait so if you hit a clumped 5 man rifle with a riflenade, it'd kill say 2 models but leave 3 at 1 HP? isn't that practically the same as a wipe? a single LMG burst and the squad dies anyways. Yeah maybe the squad survives if you do the old "toss grenade and retreat", but other than that it sounds pretty lethal. I just don't understand why it needs changing as well. Grenades work less the higher mmr you go since players can react better. Turning them into undodgeable light brummbar shells doesn't sound fun :/
7 May 2019, 17:18 PM
#5
Posts: 3260
wait so if you hit a clumped 5 man rifle with a riflenade, it'd kill say 2 models but leave 3 at 1 HP? isn't that practically the same as a wipe? a single LMG burst and the squad dies anyways. Yeah maybe the squad survives if you do the old "toss grenade and retreat", but other than that it sounds pretty lethal. I just don't understand why it needs changing as well. Grenades work less the higher mmr you go since players can react better. Turning them into undodgeable light brummbar shells doesn't sound fun :/
However the Ostwind and mines work is what I'm thinking.
7 May 2019, 19:09 PM
#6
Posts: 5279
2 cap for standard infantry grenades, but i think the more restricted grenades could be 3.
those capped at 3 would be- bundled nades, light gammons, gammon bombs (using this an opportunity to buff them to an attractive state, likely with a slightly shorter timer so its vehicle stun trait becomes possible) and possibly the shock nade, simply to reinforce them as AI masters
also if you are making that step could we make the demo charge capped at 3 and camoed again? ive been informed that having an MG is not possible for the soviet, so a way to punish blobs before t4 would be a great addition to the faction.
those capped at 3 would be- bundled nades, light gammons, gammon bombs (using this an opportunity to buff them to an attractive state, likely with a slightly shorter timer so its vehicle stun trait becomes possible) and possibly the shock nade, simply to reinforce them as AI masters
also if you are making that step could we make the demo charge capped at 3 and camoed again? ive been informed that having an MG is not possible for the soviet, so a way to punish blobs before t4 would be a great addition to the faction.
#stalinwept
7 May 2019, 19:42 PM
#7
Posts: 17883 | Subs: 8
Mines have a cap, because it was RNG squad wipe.
Grenades are L2P squad wipe, therefore don't need any cap.
Grenades are L2P squad wipe, therefore don't need any cap.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
7 May 2019, 20:05 PM
#8
Posts: 4928
I didn't even know capping was possible! Why aren't we using this more? Would love to see heavy hitters like the IS-2 actually have some accuracy, the reason it was nerfed was because it was a squad wipe machine. Let's give it some freakin' accuracy and just put a cap on it so it can actually hit tanks half decently without deleting Grenadier squads.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
7 May 2019, 20:48 PM
#9
Posts: 3260
I didn't even know capping was possible! Why aren't we using this more? Would love to see heavy hitters like the IS-2 actually have some accuracy, the reason it was nerfed was because it was a squad wipe machine. Let's give it some freakin' accuracy and just put a cap on it so it can actually hit tanks half decently without deleting Grenadier squads.
Mines are capped and the new Ostwind is capped to killing a maximum of two models in one shot.
7 May 2019, 20:55 PM
#10
Posts: 868 | Subs: 5
Mines are capped and the new Ostwind is capped to killing a maximum of two models in one shot.
They'll really buff the Ostwind next patch.
People complain the Soviets are useless.
Well, they are useless if you fight your units 1vs1. But they are all about Synergy.
What do I care if you have a Panther? Once you are crippled from running over a mine
I wait until you repair it with your 3x SturmPioneers and tell my 3x Mortars to fire at it.
did you know Vet 1 Mortars get FLARE?!
- 900 Manpower down the drain. - Panther still can't move worth a damn.
Well, they are useless if you fight your units 1vs1. But they are all about Synergy.
What do I care if you have a Panther? Once you are crippled from running over a mine
I wait until you repair it with your 3x SturmPioneers and tell my 3x Mortars to fire at it.
did you know Vet 1 Mortars get FLARE?!
- 900 Manpower down the drain. - Panther still can't move worth a damn.
7 May 2019, 21:05 PM
#11
Posts: 3260
They'll really buff the Ostwind next patch.
The 2 model cap is part of those Ostwind changes. It's per shot though: it's to stop it deleting clumped squads.
7 May 2019, 22:08 PM
#12
Posts: 730
So grande never threat MG team？
7 May 2019, 22:13 PM
#13
Posts: 3260
So grande never threat MG team？
It'll blow two models off, substantially increasing the chances of wiping it.
7 May 2019, 22:31 PM
#14
Posts: 730
It'll blow two models off, substantially increasing the chances of wiping it.
But now have good chance kill full MG squad with one grande
7 May 2019, 22:49 PM
#15
Posts: 3260
But now have good chance kill full MG squad with one grande
It'd probably be a nerf versus HMGs if it ever happened, yes.
7 May 2019, 23:24 PM
#16
Posts: 730
It'd probably be a nerf versus HMGs if it ever happened, yes.
Now you want deal a single MG squad you need more than two squad infantry,if limit grande, you can't wiping MG squad with infantry cover quick,so how many infantry need to deal a single MG squad you think？
7 May 2019, 23:33 PM
#17
Posts: 3260
Now you want deal a single MG squad you need more than two squad infantry,if limit grande, you can't wiping MG squad with infantry cover quick,so how many infantry need to deal a single MG squad you think？
If you've flanked with the infantry squad, a two model grenade blast will knock it down to two models. Two model MGs don't have good chances of packing up and running.
If you try to kill it frontally with a grenade, it probably won't work any more.
7 May 2019, 23:36 PM
#18
Posts: 5279
Mines are capped and the new Ostwind is capped to killing a maximum of two models in one shot.
its interesting that armed the ability to do this, often "completely gut the unit/ability and remove it from the game" seems to be the prefered way to go when nerfing AI units
#stalinwept
7 May 2019, 23:38 PM
#19
Posts: 3260
its interesting that armed the ability to do this, often "completely gut the unit/ability and remove it from the game" seems to be the prefered way to go when nerfing AI units
Mines are still really strong, but don't wipe. The Ostwind's capped at two models a shot, but it fires a lot of shots.
7 May 2019, 23:43 PM
#20
Posts: 4928
its interesting that armed the ability to do this, often "completely gut the unit/ability and remove it from the game" seems to be the prefered way to go when nerfing AI units
That's a silly complaint since it'll fire the follow up shot roughly .3 seconds afterward. You wouldn't even have noticed it if they didn't say something.
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> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
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