Population costs have been too high in this game since day 1. Compare them to CoH1:
COH1 / COH2
Ostheer
Tiger
14 / 19
P4
8 / 12
Grenadiers
4 / 7
Pioneers
2 / 5
USF
Stock Sherman
8 / 12
M10 / Jackson
6 / 14
Riflemen
6 / 7 (close)
Engineers
3 / 5
And so on. I play 2v2 and the problem with this is that in the late game, you may need to send in some units to die or let them be killed just to free up population in order to have an effective army composition, which is completely contrary to the game's focus on unit preservation. Regularly when I want to call in the ISU-152 for example, I have to send in squads to get wiped out or let them be killed when attacked, or there is no space for it. Resources should limit the amount of units you have first, and pop cap second. If you preserved your units well in coh1, you would have the resources to make some additional units and yet it was also balanced out by increasing your upkeep costs, but this is impossible to do at all in coh2.
From the unit guide (which may be out of date, I honestly don't remember and just came back to the game, but goes to show the point): 2x engineers (10) + 3x maxims (18) + 2x stock mortars (12) + 2x field guns (18) + 2x shock troops (20) + kraut mower (5) + t-70 (8) and you're at 93/100 without having produced even a single T4 unit (which you can't), let alone an isu. This is just absurd.
Lower pop costs is an already tried and proven formula in the first game so there should be little argument that it couldn't work in this game. It was just changed for some reason (no reason) in the second, just like in Dawn of War by the way.
Now can we finally fix this?
Reducing population costs in CoH2
1 May 2019, 09:32 AM
#1
Posts: 132
Writes out of 2v2 perspective.
1 May 2019, 10:57 AM
#2
Posts: 1740
If you compare pop costs from CoH2 to vCoH, keep in mind that pop cap in vCoH was also tied to your available sector points. In CoH2 it's always 100.
So while pop cap requirements in CoH2 are sometimes higher, the overall pop cap was more of a problem in vCoH, especially when you were behind in a game.
So while pop cap requirements in CoH2 are sometimes higher, the overall pop cap was more of a problem in vCoH, especially when you were behind in a game.
It is though God by command has withdrawn every other throne.
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
1 May 2019, 11:01 AM
#3
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
If you compare pop costs from CoH2 to vCoH, keep in mind that pop cap in vCoH was also tied to your available fuel points. In CoH2 it's always 100.
So while pop cap requirements in CoH2 are sometimes higher, the overall pop cap was more of a problem in vCoH, especially when you were behind in a game.
The pop available is also definitely far less in CoH1 than 2. I've just checked on CoH1 Angoville because I couldn't quite remember; you'll have 67 pop with your half of the map secured.
1 May 2019, 11:46 AM
#4
Posts: 3143 | Subs: 2
CoH just feels like a bigger and better game overall.
CoH2 feels like RTS TF2 and not the good kind either, cartoonier graphics, less potent explosive effects, etc...
Feel free to compare the effects if you don't believe me, Artillery in CoH can strike fear, I always giggle like a school girl after a British creeping barrage while in CoH2 I don't even bother watching it because it's so meh, sounds are also a lot less effective.
It's obvious that this game was meant for a more younger audience to buy the DLC as well, it was not made with the same love and devotion as the first game.
CoH2 feels like RTS TF2 and not the good kind either, cartoonier graphics, less potent explosive effects, etc...
Feel free to compare the effects if you don't believe me, Artillery in CoH can strike fear, I always giggle like a school girl after a British creeping barrage while in CoH2 I don't even bother watching it because it's so meh, sounds are also a lot less effective.
It's obvious that this game was meant for a more younger audience to buy the DLC as well, it was not made with the same love and devotion as the first game.
1 May 2019, 12:03 PM
#5
Posts: 132
If you compare pop costs from CoH2 to vCoH, keep in mind that pop cap in vCoH was also tied to your available sector points. In CoH2 it's always 100.
So while pop cap requirements in CoH2 are sometimes higher, the overall pop cap was more of a problem in vCoH, especially when you were behind in a game.
I had forgotten about this, but I think my point still stands: pop costs are too high in this game. You should not need to kill units from the early and mid game off on purpose that aren't spammed but simply part of a normal build order, just because you have to free up pop in the late game.
Writes out of 2v2 perspective.
1 May 2019, 13:37 PM
#6
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Yeah the vcoh comparison isn't valid for reasons others have said. That doesn't mean you're wrong though, I too have felt the need to send in units to die to free up space for tanks. Mostly in 2v2s as well
And I find it's usually the opposite of spamming one unit that gets you there. It usually happens when I have a good mix of support weapons and infantry
And I find it's usually the opposite of spamming one unit that gets you there. It usually happens when I have a good mix of support weapons and infantry
1 May 2019, 14:53 PM
#7
Posts: 3260
I had forgotten about this, but I think my point still stands: pop costs are too high in this game. You should not need to kill units from the early and mid game off on purpose that aren't spammed but simply part of a normal build order, just because you have to free up pop in the late game.
It's deliberate. SBP overhauled population costs to their current level to prevent the spamming of certain units, such as tank destroyers.
1 May 2019, 15:29 PM
#8
Posts: 132
It's deliberate. SBP overhauled population costs to their current level to prevent the spamming of certain units, such as tank destroyers.
I see. Ironically I would argue that it instead promotes spam, because you won't be able to have a balanced army anyway. Might as well go all in on a few units. But if it's intentional, I guess this thread is a waste.
Writes out of 2v2 perspective.
1 May 2019, 23:38 PM
#9
Posts: 5279
CoH just feels like a bigger and better game overall.
CoH2 feels like RTS TF2 and not the good kind either, cartoonier graphics, less potent explosive effects, etc...
Feel free to compare the effects if you don't believe me, Artillery in CoH can strike fear, I always giggle like a school girl after a British creeping barrage while in CoH2 I don't even bother watching it because it's so meh, sounds are also a lot less effective.
It's obvious that this game was meant for a more younger audience to buy the DLC as well, it was not made with the same love and devotion as the first game.
Not really fair to say that considering their publisher was bought up and they were forced to finish a game so they could release SOMETHING.
Im sure given the proper opportunity the game would have been just as good,but due to having to be pushed out it's been kinda damage control since launch
#stalinwept
2 May 2019, 00:20 AM
#10
Posts: 3143 | Subs: 2
Not really fair to say that considering their publisher was bought up and they were forced to finish a game so they could release SOMETHING.
Im sure given the proper opportunity the game would have been just as good,but due to having to be pushed out it's been kinda damage control since launch
Alright then, what's the excuse for Dawn of War 3? All they had to do was bring DoW to the DoW2 Essence Engine version and maybe improve it a bit here and there since it's what literally people asked for, instead we got an animal which didn't know if it was a MOBA or RTS game and they had since 2013 to make it as well this time around without the fear of bankruptcy.
2 May 2019, 00:32 AM
#11
Posts: 5279
Alright then, what's the excuse for Dawn of War 3? All they had to do was bring DoW to the DoW2 Essence Engine version and maybe improve it a bit here and there since it's what literally people asked for, instead we got an animal which didn't know if it was a MOBA or RTS game and they had since 2013 to make it as well this time around without the fear of bankruptcy.
Fuck if I know mate. They tried to merge dow1 and dow2 because they didn't know what fans liked. Coh2 is still coh, just with less refinement on the gameplay and balance because it's more complex. It's got more moving parts. Don't pretend they just don't care as they continue adding content the community wants and continues trying to fix the game to the players tastes years after launch. They are still trying and if they didn't care they wouldn't.
The game is far from perfect but they are constantly trying to refine it.
#stalinwept
2 May 2019, 01:54 AM
#12
Posts: 4928
CoH2 feels like RTS TF2 and not the good kind either, cartoonier graphics, less potent explosive effects, etc...
Cartoonier graphics? Did we forget that Pioneers wore purple, or that Grenadiers wore white, or how the Hellcat was as large as a Tiger Tank?
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2 May 2019, 03:50 AM
#13
Posts: 730
CoH1——Battlion of Heroes
CoH2——Platoon of Heroes
CoH2——Platoon of Heroes
2 May 2019, 07:19 AM
#14
Posts: 3599 | Subs: 1
I have the exact opposite opinion, almost every unit should get an increase of their popcap.
2 May 2019, 08:23 AM
#15
Posts: 3143 | Subs: 2
Fuck if I know mate. They tried to merge dow1 and dow2 because they didn't know what fans liked. Coh2 is still coh, just with less refinement on the gameplay and balance because it's more complex. It's got more moving parts. Don't pretend they just don't care as they continue adding content the community wants and continues trying to fix the game to the players tastes years after launch. They are still trying and if they didn't care they wouldn't.
The game is far from perfect but they are constantly trying to refine it.
I'm not pretending about anything, I bought the collector's edition of the game for a hundred bucks and a month after release they put out the first batch of OP commanders that were 5 bucks a piece and took months to nerf and they repeated it several times over with the excuse that they're adding more content to the game, meanwhile the about 10 commanders in the CE were obsolete and just different versions of each other for the most part. You may call this a legal business practices but I call it shady, lowsome and lying to your customers trying to squeeze a few extra bucks out of them like a cow being milked. So this game was about the money from the day of it's release, I don't know what would have been different if THQ were still around but judging by the DLC list for DoW2 probably not a whole lot.
Meanwhile I've probably bought the original CoH about 5 times now and it's worth every penny, I know it because I've been playing it since 2006.
Cartoonier graphics? Did we forget that Pioneers wore purple, or that Grenadiers wore white, or how the Hellcat was as large as a Tiger Tank?
I believe you are confusing textures and models for graphics here. But I will agree on the Hellcat part, I was surprised to learn that it was actually about the size of a car in real life years after playing the game. Still, there's the ghillie suit wearing Grenadiers here plus the golden Tiger Ace but unlike CoH you can't just install a skin pack and make it dissappear.
3 May 2019, 01:11 AM
#16
Posts: 2358
CoH1——Battlion of Heroes
CoH2——Platoon of Heroes
CoH3--???
3 May 2019, 10:09 AM
#17
Posts: 3143 | Subs: 2
3 May 2019, 10:13 AM
#18
Posts: 17883 | Subs: 8
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
3 May 2019, 14:02 PM
#19
Posts: 2358
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