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russian armor

NEW COMMANDER PREVIEW - 7.0 version

9 May 2019, 14:26 PM
#81
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1497 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post9 May 2019, 14:16 PMMaret


And what we will do with penals? If we removed them, SU lost alternative infantry unit. OST have Pgrens, OKW have obers, USF have officers and UKF have engeeners with options to buy weapon and get upgrade from anvil.
I said it before, that penals must reverted into narrow specialists squad. As example:

1. Tank hunters - 3 PTRS and mosins and ability similar to brit sniper. IMHO i prefer this squad as analogue of light AT gun with cone of fire. It looks more realistic, as ptrs never used to shoot from hands.
2. Breakthrough squad - ppshs and satchels.


Conscripts will be all the same penals only stretched in time, they will receive six SVT-40. With six SVT-40 recruits will be an excellent unit, and there will be no complaints that six SVT-40 penalty points are OP at the start of the game.

We already have an assault unit - shock troops, explosives can be moved with it.
9 May 2019, 14:43 PM
#82
avatar of Maret

Posts: 579



Conscripts will be all the same penals only stretched in time, they will receive six SVT-40. With six SVT-40 recruits will be an excellent unit, and there will be no complaints that six SVT-40 penalty points are OP at the start of the game. With six SVT-40 conscripts will be an excellent unit, and there will be no complaints that six SVT-40 penals are OP at the start of the game.

We already have an assault unit - shock troops, explosives can be moved with it.

I don't argue that this make cons real mainline squad. But totally remove entire unit for this, it give less diversity to gameplay. Much easier balance only one unit to another, but we all also want to see diversity and variable tactics. If you remove penals who will build T1 for SU? It will be totaly dead building without any real options (only if you want sniper for some reasons...). And don't forget that problem with cons was not only they weakness against other infantry as weak maxims do that. You always go to T2 for maxims and after maxim nerf we got penals with AT option to get buildorder where you can build infantry and get some AT options.
9 May 2019, 14:46 PM
#83
avatar of Maret

Posts: 579

I also afraid that buffed cons with weak maxims make only one buildorder for SU. Cons,cons,cons....SU don't need HMGs,snipers or M3A1 we have cons! It will be very boring gameplay.
9 May 2019, 14:49 PM
#84
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1436 | Subs: 1

Minor bug in 8.0 (if the Mod team is paying attention to this thread).

The M5 in Tactical Support Company currently doesn't work - you are unable to call it in because it says "Population Cap reached" even if you are below 100. Not a huge deal but it would be nice to try buffed M5 with USF.
9 May 2019, 14:54 PM
#85
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1497 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post9 May 2019, 14:43 PMMaret

I don't argue that this make cons real mainline squad. But totally remove entire unit for this, it give less diversity to gameplay. Much easier balance only one unit to another, but we all also want to see diversity and variable tactics. If you remove penals who will build T1 for SU? It will be totaly dead building without any real options (only if you want sniper for some reasons...). And don't forget that problem with cons was not only they weakness against other infantry as weak maxims do that. You always go to T2 for maxims and after maxim nerf we got penals with AT option to get buildorder where you can build infantry and get some AT options.


The consequences of the initial design: in T1 it was supposed to build shock troops and the Guard if you chose the appropriate commanders, they replaced the penals. The concept was gone, the design remained. Penalties were originally a unit that was unnecessary.
To fill the void in T1, can be added there broneboyshchiki (anti-tank riflemen) 4 conscripts armies with PTRS, camouflage and AT abilities .
9 May 2019, 15:02 PM
#86
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783

Just give Conscripts an upgrade option "SVT package" providing 2 or 3 of them by default. That will make everyone happy for sure.
9 May 2019, 20:42 PM
#87
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 1680

Just give Conscripts an upgrade option "SVT package" providing 2 or 3 of them by default. That will make everyone happy for sure.

Its not about "making everyone happy". That only encourages cicle buff and nerfs and people arguing each other here on the forums.
Being right has nothing to do about being accepted.

Cons becoming the new penals to make them mainline inf is just lazy writing, its a bad design. Cons are the "versatile" option for SU as for penals are the "punch hard" aspect of it. If penals were to change in anything it should be to shorten their lifespan ingame. Not making them more fragile, but to make them scale worse into mid-lategame and make them cheaper too. Then buff cons midgame and scalability to make the player choose, either safe aggressive start or a riskier adaptative early into a stronger lategame.

One favours vs OST and the other vs OKM.
9 May 2019, 21:21 PM
#88
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783


Its not about "making everyone happy". That only encourages cicle buff and nerfs and people arguing each other here on the forums.
Being right has nothing to do about being accepted.

Cons becoming the new penals to make them mainline inf is just lazy writing, its a bad design. Cons are the "versatile" option for SU as for penals are the "punch hard" aspect of it. If penals were to change in anything it should be to shorten their lifespan ingame. Not making them more fragile, but to make them scale worse into mid-lategame and make them cheaper too. Then buff cons midgame and scalability to make the player choose, either safe aggressive start or a riskier adaptative early into a stronger lategame.

One favours vs OST and the other vs OKM.


It is kind of hard to resolve what is the best solution then for Conscripts. Maybe a slight price nerf. Around 220-230 manpower. That is my opinion. I mean they are not supposed to a great unit. Good supportive unit, that is for sure. 200 manpower would be a bit too cheap tough.

I use it usually in combination with Maxim, that is good. It would be nice to get something more for Cons in their current state.

7 man is nice but they should not have any affect in their performance. Just 1 man addition upgrade without any changes to the way they perform seems like the ideal solution. Upgrade should come after base 1 built. The current 7 man and timing should be changed a bit. Performance should remain unchanged (the 6 man version) and costs 60 ammo. No price refill decrease. That is my idea.

9 May 2019, 22:11 PM
#89
avatar of Maret

Posts: 579



It is kind of hard to resolve what is the best solution then for Conscripts. Maybe a slight price nerf. Around 220-230 manpower. That is my opinion. I mean they are not supposed to a great unit. Good supportive unit, that is for sure. 200 manpower would be a bit too cheap tough.



If unit not supposed to be good, no one use it. You can ask old Ostwind and maxim how it feels. I know only one good support unit in game - osttruppens. Supercheap, superfast time to reinforce, snare, can build defense and get access to weapon upgrade. Add to it superior HMG and not the worst PGrens and you can hold a ground.
Cons now in the same position as old ostwind and maxim. Maxim is trash on wheels with deathloop and soap bubbles instead of bullets and where for OST i have one HMG for SU i need 2 maxims. What we tried to do now it make cons strong enough without maxim. But it's dead road. Penals strong without maxim and it's work. Cons without maxim never be work.
9 May 2019, 22:17 PM
#90
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783

jump backJump back to quoted post9 May 2019, 22:11 PMMaret


If unit not supposed to be good, no one use it. You can ask old Ostwind and maxim how it feels. I know only one good support unit in game - osttruppens. Supercheap, superfast time to reinforce, snare, can build defense and get access to weapon upgrade. Add to it superior HMG and not the worst PGrens and you can hold a ground.
Cons now in the same position as old ostwind and maxim. Maxim is trash on wheels with deathloop and soap bubbles instead of bullets and where for OST i have one HMG for SU i need 2 maxims. What we tried to do now it make cons strong enough without maxim. But it's dead road. Penals strong without maxim and it's work. Cons without maxim never be work.


Conscripts were not real trained units. If associate it with Irl, they were just men with rifles. Reason why cuz Stalin purged most of the army, experienced officers. Guess they had to train themselves through terror and harsh conditions. For the sake of the game, it would be nice to see for them to get some upgrades or alternatives.

They are supposed to fit the role of support although I feel they could at least get some upgrades or something. That would be great. That is what they should get. I think all the molotov and at package should be cheaper or for free for that matter!

I know how the SU works btw!
9 May 2019, 22:40 PM
#91
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13788 | Subs: 7



Conscripts were not real trained units. If associate it with Irl, they were just men with rifles. Reason why cuz Stalin purged most of the army, experienced officers. Guess they had to train themselves through terror and harsh conditions. For the sake of the game, it would be nice to see for them to get some upgrades or alternatives.


What are your sources?
A random bum on supermarket parking lot?

They are supposed to fit the role of support although I feel they could at least get some upgrades or something. That would be great. That is what they should get. I think all the molotov and at package should be cheaper or for free for that matter!

They are getting an upgrade.
We'll see if its enough.

I know how the SU works btw!

If that knowledge is on comparable level to knowing how ost works, then sorry, you don't.
9 May 2019, 22:41 PM
#92
avatar of Maret

Posts: 579



They are supposed to fit the role of support although I feel they could at least get some upgrades or something. That would be great. That is what they should get. I think all the molotov and at package should be cheaper or for free for that matter!

I know how the SU works btw!


If cons support who will be carry role of mainline SU infantry? If we have support we always have damage dealer or ADC (if use RPG words). Penals, but they tough enough and don't need squishy cons. Who need in that case cons that only one way that they could work with penals it's Merge? I prefer build 3 penals and try to survive for t-70 than play in russian roulete with maxims and cons.
Give cons normal nades instead of these stupid bottles with hot water and ppshs non doc. Upgrade with 7-th man we could put in commanders instead ppshs. Then we will see cons in game. 7-th man upgrade in T4 it's too late
Only Relic postRelic 9 May 2019, 23:45 PM
#93
avatar of Andy_RE
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 49 | Subs: 18

Heads up all

https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/245822/new-commander-preview-changelog#latest


"The commander update is now considered feature complete. There will be no further iteration mods.

There will be minor changes to values and balance items, but the final update will very closely reflect the finalized notes posted at the top of this page.

We are now working on creating the live build.

We do not have a hard release date for this update just yet, as creating the build and is a variable process.

However, we are aiming to release this update towards the end of May, or early June.

A major thanks to everyone who has voted, playtested, or given feedback during this process. It has all helped shape what we feel will be an awesome update for the game.

Cheers all"
10 May 2019, 01:09 AM
#94
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 121

Thanks for all involved and their hard work!
10 May 2019, 01:09 AM
#95
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3254 | Subs: 1

Mark my words. RE nade spam will drown out the sun.
10 May 2019, 06:33 AM
#96
avatar of sherlock
Patrion 14

Posts: 550 | Subs: 1

:( How does it reach "feature complete" when, from what I can see, a majority agrees that there is a huge problem with the USF commander in that it is incredibly bland, derivative and completely lacks any innovation or new features when compared to any other commander.

The only "stand-out" feature are RE nades, which split the community into people who believe they are broken and people who seem them as okay.



At least I get some nice other commanders, but the USF commander is a big letdown for me.

That being said. I am very grateful for the work Andy and the community team have done on the other commanders and the faction changes and am excited for the patch. Thank you guys :D
10 May 2019, 07:40 AM
#97
avatar of Brick Top

Posts: 1068

Mark my words. RE nade spam will drown out the sun.


Then go assault troops, or G43, anything that doesnt need to stand still. Ive not tried the mod though, so I dont know how bad they are.
10 May 2019, 07:54 AM
#98
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13788 | Subs: 7

I find it extremely disappointing that M-42 canister shot was soft-removed from the game by gutting its range instead of lowering its potency by increasing reload significantly.
10 May 2019, 08:00 AM
#99
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1497 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post10 May 2019, 07:54 AMKatitof
I find it extremely disappointing that M-42 canister shot was soft-removed from the game by gutting its range instead of lowering its potency by increasing reload significantly.


Yeah, first do something really unique and useful, and then just totally nerf it is Relic tradition. A canister shot could have all the same 50 meters but be temporary for ammunition.
10 May 2019, 08:24 AM
#100
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 2609 | Subs: 1

:( How does it reach "feature complete" when, from what I can see, a majority agrees that there is a huge problem with the USF commander in that it is incredibly bland, derivative and completely lacks any innovation or new features when compared to any other commander.

The only "stand-out" feature are RE nades, which split the community into people who believe they are broken and people who seem them as okay.



At least I get some nice other commanders, but the USF commander is a big letdown for me.

That being said. I am very grateful for the work Andy and the community team have done on the other commanders and the faction changes and am excited for the patch. Thank you guys :D


The balance team never made any mystery about their plan for it. Not all factions can get two commanders with Tiger Ace or get a new branded Command Tiger.
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