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Riflemen are too expensive.

11 Feb 2019, 10:46 AM
#81
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 128

Rifleman Veterancy

Vet 1: Unlocks the 'Anti-Tank Rifle Grenade' ability
Vet 2: -23% received accuracy, -20% weapon cooldown
Vet 3: -15% received accuracy,+30% accuracy, -50% ability recharge time, +25% grenade range

Rather than a straight up buff to rifleman, I believe they (along with some other units such as Grenadiers) could use something I like to call "Veterancy Smoothing". Basically most units in the game do not receive a combat related bonus at Vet 1 and then get a huge bonus at Veterancy 2/3. I would like to see these bonuses/power spikes spread out across each veterancy level to make the unit performance more consistent and gradual as they vet up.

Example of New Rifleman Vet
Vet 1 : -12.6% received accuracy,+10% accuracy, Unlocks Rifle Grenade
Vet 2 : -12.6% received accuracy,+10% accuracy, -20% Weapon Cooldown
Vet 3 : -12.6% received accuracy,+10% accuracy, -50% ability recharge time, +25% grenade range
11 Feb 2019, 12:41 PM
#82
avatar of blancat

Posts: 561

Rifleman Veterancy

Vet 1: Unlocks the 'Anti-Tank Rifle Grenade' ability
Vet 2: -23% received accuracy, -20% weapon cooldown
Vet 3: -15% received accuracy,+30% accuracy, -50% ability recharge time, +25% grenade range

Rather than a straight up buff to rifleman, I believe they (along with some other units such as Grenadiers) could use something I like to call "Veterancy Smoothing". Basically most units in the game do not receive a combat related bonus at Vet 1 and then get a huge bonus at Veterancy 2/3. I would like to see these bonuses/power spikes spread out across each veterancy level to make the unit performance more consistent and gradual as they vet up.

Example of New Rifleman Vet
Vet 1 : -12.6% received accuracy,+10% accuracy, Unlocks Rifle Grenade
Vet 2 : -12.6% received accuracy,+10% accuracy, -20% Weapon Cooldown
Vet 3 : -12.6% received accuracy,+10% accuracy, -50% ability recharge time, +25% grenade range




+1

good example
13 Feb 2019, 15:41 PM
#83
avatar of mons7erz

Posts: 78

Sick of threads that want an allied buff because of some OKW unit. Then what will it do to Ostheer?! Ost never gets powercreep. Riflemen are very good vs grens so the solution is to nerf volks. I suggested nerfing the stg close and midrange dps but slight buff to max range. Increase the speed of volks. Now OKW players must keep their volks at max range at all times which is a bit easier due to slightly faster speed and rifles will be punished a bit less for closing the distance. Also a slightly faster speed will allow volks to flank more effectively since the Leig is subpar.


I like that you've brought that up, but that problem doesn't exclusively occur to Volks.
Rifleman ALSO have to keep at long to max range when facing Strumpios, otherwise they will get shredded in anything closer than medium range.
The hardest combinations to face off against in OKW are Strums supported by Volks, it essentially becomes an instant retreat, or getting what you can from the engagement before retreating. Regardless of what anyone does say, Strums will always dominate the close range, as they should with their STGs.
In regards to OST, I understand where you are coming from, but aernt Grens usually covered by MGs to compensate for that? Much like the Volks are supported by the Strumpios or visa versa?

As for grens, i'd say their powercreep is BP1, LMG42s and Rifle nades tend to work wonders. But Its been a long time since i played OST so I can't fully comment
13 Feb 2019, 15:49 PM
#84
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 1637

...
The hardest combinations to face off against in OKW are Strums supported by Volks...Regardless of what anyone does say, Strums will always dominate the close range, as they should with their STGs...

Simply put, game is hard, nerf pls.
And regarless what you say, sturm are paper soldiers, expensive AF and no one with more than 1 neuron will kamikaze them for a single riflemen squad. You can do the math anytime. Now if your complaint is why (300+260)560 MP beats 280... I cant really tell why...
1v1 stationary riflemen destroy sturms.
1v1 rushing riflemen beats volks.
2 riflemen focusing a single rushing sturmpios, and then taking out the trash of the remaining volk squad, seems pretty reasonable. All your problems solved.
13 Feb 2019, 16:29 PM
#85
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2178 | Subs: 4


As for grens, i'd say their powercreep is BP1, LMG42s and Rifle nades tend to work wonders. But Its been a long time since i played OST so I can't fully comment

It's not powercreep when they've been the same for literally 5 years.
13 Feb 2019, 16:31 PM
#86
avatar of blancat

Posts: 561


Simply put, game is hard, nerf pls.
And regarless what you say, sturm are paper soldiers, expensive AF and no one with more than 1 neuron will kamikaze them for a single riflemen squad. You can do the math anytime. Now if your complaint is why (300+260)560 MP beats 280... I cant really tell why...
1v1 stationary riflemen destroy sturms.
1v1 rushing riflemen beats volks.
2 riflemen focusing a single rushing sturmpios, and then taking out the trash of the remaining volk squad, seems pretty reasonable. All your problems solved.



1v1 stationary riflemen destroy sturms. -> strum win in mid-close range

1v1 rushing rifleman cant beat volk behind the cover

almost situation rifleman hugging into volks behind the cover and lost MP efficiency

if rifleman hugging into volks safely, volk just throw flame nade and can beat easily again


also volks get better weapon earlier than rifleman and MP snowballing starts here




13 Feb 2019, 16:32 PM
#87
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3910

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Feb 2019, 16:31 PMblancat



1v1 stationary riflemen destroy sturms. -> strum win in mid-close range

1v1 rushing rifleman cant beat volk behind the cover




same for both, rifle on cover beat sturm and volks when they charge leaving aside rifle man have same chances at long range vs volks thanks to having 0.97 target size
13 Feb 2019, 16:34 PM
#88
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 313


Simply put, game is hard, nerf pls.
And regarless what you say, sturm are paper soldiers, expensive AF and no one with more than 1 neuron will kamikaze them for a single riflemen squad. You can do the math anytime. Now if your complaint is why (300+260)560 MP beats 280... I cant really tell why...
1v1 stationary riflemen destroy sturms.
1v1 rushing riflemen beats volks.
2 riflemen focusing a single rushing sturmpios, and then taking out the trash of the remaining volk squad, seems pretty reasonable. All your problems solved.


I think he is refering too the minute one pressure okw can bring. Usf cant field rifles as fast as okw can field volks. And the sturms rape a rear echelon squad.
And volks are 250mp not 260mp mr expert.

And dude if you cant write something without insulting someone just do everyone a favor and stop posting.
13 Feb 2019, 16:46 PM
#89
avatar of mons7erz

Posts: 78



I think he is refering too the minute one pressure okw can bring. Usf cant field rifles as fast as okw can field volks. And the sturms rape a rear echelon squad.
And volks are 250mp not 260mp mr expert.

And dude if you cant write something without insulting someone just do everyone a favor and stop posting.


Thanks mate, Thats What i was getting at, It appears I wasn't clear enough on that. And while we're on the topic; OKW already have a Strum fielded, so really its a 250MP + a free strum vs 280MP matchup. and Yes. My poor echelons. their rears are not the only thing that were raped, my ass too :crazy:

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Feb 2019, 16:29 PMTobis

It's not powercreep when they've been the same for literally 5 years.

That explains alot, I haven't played Wer in 5 years. XD but if they've literally stayed the same, does this mean my knowledge doesn't need much updating?
13 Feb 2019, 17:05 PM
#90
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 594

The game was released in mid 2013... how he hell have you not played as half of all available armies during that time?
13 Feb 2019, 17:50 PM
#91
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3122 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Feb 2019, 16:31 PMblancat



1v1 stationary riflemen destroy sturms. -> strum win in mid-close range

1v1 rushing rifleman cant beat volk behind the cover

almost situation rifleman hugging into volks behind the cover and lost MP efficiency

if rifleman hugging into volks safely, volk just throw flame nade and can beat easily again


also volks get better weapon earlier than rifleman and MP snowballing starts here






This is the issue. You can't engage them at range effeciently but you also cant close because of stgs and labs nades. They are such a poorly designed unit.
Obers should come earlier to lessen the blow and promote diversity but volks need toned down slightly for the sake of all balamce
13 Feb 2019, 19:18 PM
#92
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3910



This is the issue. You can't engage them at range effeciently but you also cant close because of stgs and labs nades. They are such a poorly designed unit.
Obers should come earlier to lessen the blow and promote diversity but volks need toned down slightly for the sake of all balamce
rifle man are on par on long range and beat them close range
if u add stg vs 1 bar rifleman beat volks at long range and destroy them close
14 Feb 2019, 05:58 AM
#93
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 1637



I think he is refering too the minute one pressure okw can bring. Usf cant field rifles as fast as okw can field volks. And the sturms rape a rear echelon squad.
And volks are 250mp not 260mp mr expert.

And dude if you cant write something without insulting someone just do everyone a favor and stop posting.

I think my point was clear enough for anyone really needing to explain it. Besides i pointed out how bad idea is to complaint about loosing a single squad when its ambushed by other 2 in their most favourable firing distances. But hey, im mr expert, why should i care for others l2p problems...
The main topic was riflemen and its cost, and its pretty clear that you pay por lategame superiority at T0.
So...
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