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Let's speak about OST AT mine

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thedarkarmadillo
30 Nov 2018, 04:20 AM
#121
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2018, 02:55 AMferwiner


This is not the right conversion rate. Like with all conversion abilities you pay extra for the opportunity to choose what kind of resources you really want right now. If the ability would go the other way round, fuel into manpower, you wouldn't definitely get your 200mp back from 50 fuel. Remember how expensive the conversion on okw mechanised was? This is similar.

Btw, the cheapest LV is probably kubel.

Well, you build a cache for 250mp and get a steady flow of fuel. It adds something like +5 right? So 250mp +10 min 50 fuel. I think the conversion stands.
The conversion on mechanized was muni to fuel and was applied to a reduced income so it was kinda fucky (although I do miss it) I would say that because it was a strange and constant ability on a unique income design with a faction designed around it that it ranks as an outlier.

Also I specifically didn't mention the Kuble because we're trying to use a fuel cost to determine an approximate value in manpower when fuel is considered. But for the sake of considering all bases the Kuble costs 210mp when we convert the fuel 210+((4)0)= 210 so we can determine that with the fuel conversion applied the Kuble true cost is 210mp. Hope this helps.
#stalinwept
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Tobis
30 Nov 2018, 04:56 AM
#122
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Fuel is worth 4 mp based on how experience and unit value is calculated.

But it doesn't really matter, it completely depends on your circumstance in the game how valuable fuel is in the moment.
Tobis "Complete Throw"

Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.

Defeated Paula and knocked him out of 2v2 Anniversary Cup :snfBarton:
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LoopDloop
30 Nov 2018, 06:47 AM
#123
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War, war never changes

(War being coh2.org threads).
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ferwiner
30 Nov 2018, 10:08 AM
#124
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Still not sure about the conversion, as it gives ludicrous value to some expendable vehicles. But I'm not going to argue on it any more. Lets just settle on the fact that everything that can be killed with unscouted teller can also be killed by unscouted demo.
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thedarkarmadillo
30 Nov 2018, 11:17 AM
#125
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2018, 10:08 AMferwiner
Still not sure about the conversion, as it gives ludicrous value to some expendable vehicles. But I'm not going to argue on it any more. Lets just settle on the fact that everything that can be killed with unscouted teller can also be killed by unscouted demo.


Tbh I actually think the conversion works.
Losing a T34 certainly hurts like losing a couple squads of guards and sets you back just as bad if it happens early.

Clown car 170+((4)15)=230 that honestly sounds about right doesn't it? Worth a bit more than a Kuble...

More I read into it the more I think it stands. Really highlights how over priced some units like the m20 is as well when you slap an extra 80mp on it for example
#stalinwept
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Katitof
30 Nov 2018, 11:30 AM
#126
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2018, 11:17 AMthedarkarmadillo

More I read into it the more I think it stands. Really highlights how over priced some units like the m20 is as well when you slap an extra 80mp on it for example

Another thing about M20 is, people bitch how it is "immune to small arms", well, when was the last time you have seen 222 being actually killed by small arms? Hell, even M3?

You bring no AT skill/weapon and anything larger then Kubel will not die if you choose to rely only only on your rifles.

"but it caan finish eet offf ketetooooooof!"

Sure, but what have brought it down to the health level when that is a possibility?
Certainly not these rifles.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Vipper
30 Nov 2018, 11:37 AM
#127
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2018, 11:30 AMKatitof

Another thing about M20 is, people bitch how it is "immune to small arms", well, when was the last time you have seen 222 being actually killed by small arms? Hell, even M3?

...

Play the game you will see any unit with smg can kill an m3A3, problem its M3A3 high dps not its armor. Same goes for 222 rear armor.
:)
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Katitof
30 Nov 2018, 11:38 AM
#128
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2018, 11:37 AMVipper

Play the game you will see any unit with smg can kill an m3A3. Same goes for 222 rear armor.

I am going to assume skill level higher then yours and opponents actually not leaving them idle and forgetting about them.

Any non crippled LV dying to any small arms that isn't HMG42 inc rounds(and maybe DSHK AP rounds) is L2P issue.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Vipper
30 Nov 2018, 11:52 AM
#129
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2018, 11:38 AMKatitof

I am going to assume skill level higher then yours and opponents actually not leaving them idle and forgetting about them.


Usual Katitof goes to personal insults when he runs out of argument.

DPS of SP vs M3A3

19.0/17.3/9.3/4.6

EFH = 900

time to kill
10.6/11.5/21.5/43.6

DPS of SP vs M20 armor skirts

6.2/5.7/3.0/1.5

EFH = 4620

time to kill
51.6 56.4 105.1 213.2

Since the numbers clearly prove wrong pls, go to plan B and start a semantic argument.

BB and have a nice day.

(and M20 is not immune to small arm fire, it has 16.5 armor. It needs 30+ to be immune)
:)
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Katitof
30 Nov 2018, 12:14 PM
#130
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^You.


What you've said is completely irrelevant.
You're NOT going to lose light vehicle other then Kubel to any kind of small arms fire as long as you don't go AFK at the start of encounter.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Vipper
30 Nov 2018, 12:23 PM
#131
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2018, 12:14 PMKatitof
...

And what you are saying is completely BS.

The m20 has a huge advantage over other light vehicles vs small arm due to its high armor regardless if you are going to lose it to small arm or not, saying that is doesn't have an advantage, is simply BS.
:)
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thedarkarmadillo
30 Nov 2018, 12:33 PM
#132
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Posts: 5279

Isn't the 222 immunr to small arms now? Thought it was... Also how the fuck did we get here talking about infantry killing lights? It has nothing to do with OHK mines or even really the previous tangent of how much fuel adds to manpower value.

But for the sake of it doesn't the m20 come later than other lights? Like that's part of the reason it's not terribly attractive?
#stalinwept
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Vipper
30 Nov 2018, 13:16 PM
#133
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2018, 12:33 PMthedarkarmadillo
Isn't the 222 immunr to small arms now? Thought it was... Also how the fuck did we get here talking about infantry killing lights? It has nothing to do with OHK mines or even really the previous tangent of how much fuel adds to manpower value.

But for the sake of it doesn't the m20 come later than other lights? Like that's part of the reason it's not terribly attractive?

Clarifying:

Armor values for m20
11/5.5, armor skirt 16.5/8.25

Armor values for 222 that comes later
9/4.5

The M20 has more armor than the 222 even without skirt although 222 is higher tier vehicle. The reason currently m20 is not attractive is it high MP cost and its small window of opportunity. (the units was overprice due to its timing)

Certain individuals tend to derail threads by making claims that are simply false and spreading misinformation.
:)
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thedarkarmadillo
30 Nov 2018, 13:31 PM
#134
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Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2018, 13:16 PMVipper

Clarifying:

Armor values for m20
11/5.5, armor skirt 16.5/8.25

Armor values for 222 that comes later
9/4.5

The M20 has more armor than the 222 even without skirt although 222 is higher tier vehicle. The reason currently m20 is not attractive is it high MP cost and its small window of opportunity. (the units was overprice due to its timing)

Certain individuals tend to derail threads by making claims that are simply false and spreading misinformation.


Hmm I don't see any reason for the 222 to take small arms fire, it with how easy it is for allies to get AT. I'd say buff it for all the differance it'll make (seriously... What difference WOULD it make? Except to the arguably underpenning high cal MGs I don't see any functional change in balance)
Why does the m20 feel so squishy without skirts then I wonder?

Also thanks as always for the stats Vipp. Would you happen to have health values on those on hand too just to complete the picture?
#stalinwept
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Vipper
30 Nov 2018, 13:57 PM
#135
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2018, 13:31 PMthedarkarmadillo

...
Also thanks as always for the stats Vipp. Would you happen to have health values on those on hand too just to complete the picture?

You arr welcomed, glad I could help.
HP 222
320 -> 340 vet

HP M20
240 -> 320 skirts
:)
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Katitof
30 Nov 2018, 14:03 PM
#136
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Posts: 17889 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2018, 13:57 PMVipper

You arr welcomed, glad I could help.
HP 222
320 -> 340 vet

HP M20
240 -> 320 skirts

Why the favoritism of 222 again?
M20 doesn't murder light vehicles around that tier and AI is comparable for both at mid/far range(you aren't going to ram M20 into anything because you know, fausts exist).
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Stug life
30 Nov 2018, 14:10 PM
#137
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2018, 14:03 PMKatitof

Why the favoritism of 222 again?
M20 doesn't murder light vehicles around that tier and AI is comparable for both at mid/far range(you aren't going to ram M20 into anything because you know, fausts exist).

katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
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Vipper
30 Nov 2018, 14:23 PM
#138
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2018, 14:03 PMKatitof

Why the favoritism of 222 again?
M20 doesn't murder light vehicles around that tier and AI is comparable for both at mid/far range(you aren't going to ram M20 into anything because you know, fausts exist).

Oh man, just stop with your stupid crusade to prove that I am biased. I am simply providing the stats that was requested.

And I am not sure why you even are attempting to prove that I am biased. You are clearly biased yourself, so stop blaming others for doing what you are constantly doing.

Now pls for 100 time stop with personal comments, it will make this forum a much better place.
:)
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Katitof
30 Nov 2018, 14:26 PM
#139
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17889 | Subs: 8

I've reread the previous, my mistake.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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thedarkarmadillo
30 Nov 2018, 16:17 PM
#140
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

@vipper thanks again!
#stalinwept
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