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USF Tech Changes Mod Changelog

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20 Nov 2018, 20:38 PM
#181
avatar of RoastinGhost

Posts: 416 | Subs: 1

I think the fuel cost reshuffling in 1.1 is a step backward if the intent was to give the USF easier access to MGs and AT guns at the same time.
That's why I recommended removing the second free officer: because the fuel price needs to be too high in order to make it fair.

Also: It would be nice if someone could post how many CPs other factions get from teching, because I certainly don't know the details. That, or I'll look it up and post it later.

PS: as someone who has wanted to mostly play US Airborne, thank you thank you
20 Nov 2018, 20:39 PM
#182
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



I think 0CP Pathfinders are great for more diverse and less awkward compositions, and they help early USF with a long range squad that can also scout OST's MG42. I don't think balance is much of an issue as they are very expensive, OKW shouldn't have any trouble with them and Grens will win low-med range engagements.

Pathfinder cost 290 and 6 pop and come with 2 scope m1, 2 m1a1 paratrooper carbine, cloak, 50 vision, antennas so they are not very expensive.

You also seem to underestimate the critical kills and how they can become cancerous once weapon that "scatter" damage like the BAR become available when in numbers.

Shouldn't Pathfinder and JLI have a similar pop instead of 6/8?

Shoundn't I&R Pathfinder also come at CP 0?

Imo if the CP goes down to 0 the Pathfinders should become cheaper and spawn with m1 garand and have scoped m1 locked behind some tech (Bar?/LT?)
20 Nov 2018, 20:52 PM
#183
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

JLI work well on their own and even have access to nades.
Pathfinders don't.
20 Nov 2018, 20:57 PM
#184
avatar of Rubberluck

Posts: 44

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Nov 2018, 18:46 PMVipper



Now take into account the armor values of Ostheer light vehicles and allied vehicles and you will see that 0.5 can easily counter them at vet 0 while HMG-42 need vet 1 and HMG-34 has a hard time even at vet 1.

This not a simply case of homogenization. The 0.50 was designed as a light vehicle soft counter because it was expensive to get both 0.50 and an ATG, now that is no longer the case and there is little reason for vet 0 AP round option.



You're neglecting the fact that the MG42 is a T0 unit and has sufficient time to hit vet 1 by the time allied light vehicles hit the field. Moving the .50cal's AP rounds to Vet 1 is a no-go because then you have to try to vet it against the already present threat of light vehicles after having to wait to tech to it in the first place. And lets be honest, the .50 cal's pen doesn't damage much beyond the half-trak.
20 Nov 2018, 21:04 PM
#185
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

Ability comparison:
USF
Paradrop 0.5
CP 2 cost 125/60
Paradrop M1 ATg
CP 3 cost 125/75

Air Dropped Combat Group
CP 4 cost 325/80
ATG and Paras

Supply Drop
CP 4 cost 450
HMG-34, Pak, 50MU, 25 FU

Air supply operation
CP 4 cost 100/75
1 medical supply, 1 mortar, 1 ATG

Air drop medical supplies
CP 0 30 MU 3 medical crates

Imo Air supply operation is far better than the 0.5/M1 ATG and this abilities should be looked at.


20 Nov 2018, 21:07 PM
#186
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



You're neglecting the fact that the MG42 is a T0 unit and has sufficient time to hit vet 1 by the time allied light vehicles hit the field. Moving the .50cal's AP rounds to Vet 1 is a no-go because then you have to try to vet it against the already present threat of light vehicles after having to wait to tech to it in the first place. And lets be honest, the .50 cal's pen doesn't damage much beyond the half-trak.

You mean you usually have a vet 1 M3 before an M3 or UC show up? You must play a different game.

If you are being honest and the HT is the only thing it can penetrate what it problem, you can not deal with a HT?
20 Nov 2018, 21:09 PM
#187
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Nov 2018, 20:39 PMVipper

Pathfinder cost 290 and 6 pop and come with 2 scope m1, 2 m1a1 paratrooper carbine, cloak, 50 vision, antennas so they are not very expensive.

You also seem to underestimate the critical kills and how they can become cancerous once weapon that "scatter" damage like the BAR become available when in numbers.

Shouldn't Pathfinder and JLI have a similar pop instead of 6/8?

Shoundn't I&R Pathfinder also come at CP 0?

Imo if the CP goes down to 0 the Pathfinders should become cheaper and spawn with m1 garand and have scoped m1 locked behind some tech (Bar?/LT?)


2 snipers and 2 carbines is exactly what makes them counterable early on when they have no other squads to hide behind, as both Volks and Grens should win all low-med range engagements. The critical kills with BARs is no more an issue than it already is (or isn't) because BARs will only come after 1cp anyway.

IR Pathfinders have a lot of other good traits and a less awkward position in build order (no Paras to clutter the composition) so they are fine at 1CP imo.


Turning the snipers into an upgrade like new JLI is an option, but it would require a lot of work as their stock weapons would have to be changed (4x Paras carbine would slaughter Grens) and it might be confusing for players.

JLI are also a lot better (especially in revamp) with the sniper critting at 75% so they're good at higher popcap.
20 Nov 2018, 21:12 PM
#188
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Nov 2018, 20:52 PMKatitof
JLI work well on their own and even have access to nades.
Pathfinders don't.

The claim that JLIR have access to grenade is inaccurate, scavenger doctrine has "Infiltration tactics" available at CP3 after a cool-down, the same doctrine has access to JLIR.

Is that any how related with Pathfinders having a pop of 6 while JLIR having a pop 8 making far worse candidates to crew support weapons even it they come across some?
20 Nov 2018, 21:13 PM
#189
avatar of RoastinGhost

Posts: 416 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Nov 2018, 21:04 PMVipper
Ability comparison:

Imo Air supply operation is far better than the 0.5/M1 ATG and this abilities should be looked at.



This for sure. The manpower cost should be brought up to like 200, considering that it provides bonuses and a unique weapon. I've mentioned it on the Commander Revamp thread as well.
20 Nov 2018, 21:20 PM
#190
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

Oh man, Airborne sure sounds super atractive now, Paratroopers aside, Pathfinders are an amazing unit, can't wait to try that.
20 Nov 2018, 21:23 PM
#191
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1220

Okw got lefh after rework because mg34 is now non doctrinal so i guess aiborne revamp should be part of faction rework but on other hand u can still drop mg or at to your alies
20 Nov 2018, 21:38 PM
#192
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



2 snipers and 2 carbines is exactly what makes them counterable early on when they have no other squads to hide behind, as both Volks and Grens should win all low-med range engagements. The critical kills with BARs is no more an issue than it already is (or isn't) because BARs will only come after 1cp anyway.

IR Pathfinders have a lot of other good traits and a less awkward position in build order (no Paras to clutter the composition) so they are fine at 1CP imo.


Turning the snipers into an upgrade like new JLI is an option, but it would require a lot of work as their stock weapons would have to be changed (4x Paras carbine would slaughter Grens) and it might be confusing for players.

JLI are also a lot better (especially in revamp) with the sniper critting at 75% so they're good at higher popcap.

? why exactly they have not other squad to hide?

Pathfinder can be produced immediately and not start on CD, and USF can have 1 Rear Echelon, 1 Pathfinder 1 riflemen about the time Ostheer can produce his first grenadier.

Pathfinder are using the paratroopers M1 which is better than garand at mid range, these are elite weapons.

With pathfinder at CP 1 and with the "free" officer USF could hardly field more than 1 (maybe 2) pathfinder and that is not the case anymore.

A 0.50/M1 with Pathfinders crew has the same Pop as a normal 0.5/M1 while being allot better.

20 Nov 2018, 21:45 PM
#193
avatar of Stark

Posts: 626 | Subs: 1

...


Is it possible to merge commander revamp with USF tech changes? I would like to test and try mech doctrine with new tier system.
Phy
20 Nov 2018, 22:21 PM
#194
avatar of Phy

Posts: 509 | Subs: 1

I like the revamp but i still have concerns with:
-Airbone doctrine. Yes, more room for paratroopers but .50cal/at gun drop its now even more useless. This should be replaced with another thing or imo the doc still not worth to pick (despite it costs now only munition).
-Greyhound should come earlier. A posible solution would be something like AEC tech. You need and officer and a research (wich cost fuel) to be able to build it from HQ. This give us more control in timings rather than this ''cp buff with tech''.
20 Nov 2018, 22:39 PM
#195
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

Greyhound can become an doctrinal upgrade for the m20.
20 Nov 2018, 22:42 PM
#196
avatar of GiaA

Posts: 710 | Subs: 2

LT start is too attractive. There's no reason to go captain first atm. The captain Vehicle tech is worthless in general. Also 4 Rifles is dead with this update because you will almost always go 3 officers and that's just way too much infantry to maintain.

Officers should be optional. Initial tech mp cost should be reduced to 100 mp. M20 MP cost should increase. Officers should cost another ~250 mp. Something needs to be done about the LT early mid game power spike. M20 into Stuart combined with 50cals is insane. Switching 50cal and Pack would be one idea.
20 Nov 2018, 23:22 PM
#197
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 573

Why was Airborne looked at but Recon was ignored in 1.1 despite the fact these doctrines work very similar to each other?
Put the Greyhound behind tech tree instead of CP-lock, it comes way too late to be useful.
20 Nov 2018, 23:44 PM
#198
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Nov 2018, 23:22 PMKirrik
Why was Airborne looked at but Recon was ignored in 1.1 despite the fact these doctrines work very similar to each other?
Put the Greyhound behind tech tree instead of CP-lock, it comes way too late to be useful.


They did something about Airborne, have a little patience and faith and wwe might just see RS saved from Oblivion, maybe.
20 Nov 2018, 23:51 PM
#199
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

Recon Support should still work fine, its airdrop is very cost efficient. It already has the treatment Airborne just got.
20 Nov 2018, 23:57 PM
#200
avatar of miragefla
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13

Remember, Recon Support can get access to its units faster as well from the current CP gain.
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