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Volks are disgustingly good, need toning down.

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21 Oct 2018, 07:55 AM
#1
avatar of Dragonul09

Posts: 20

They are too cheap, too spammble, consistent damage, they throw those incendiary grenades like pro baseball players, plus they make the entire garrison/cover play style look like a joke and toward mid-late game are like terminators. Either do something about the STG upgrade/flame nade or make them more expensive to reinforce and call it a day.
21 Oct 2018, 08:18 AM
#2
21 Oct 2018, 08:40 AM
#3
avatar of Dragonul09

Posts: 20

Playercard pls


Arguments pls
21 Oct 2018, 08:56 AM
#4
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 3119 | Subs: 1

This thread hardly has a place in balance section, I would suggest that next you want to post a thread in this tone you should post it in the lobby.
21 Oct 2018, 09:08 AM
#5
avatar of RollingStone

Posts: 40

>got rekt with OKW in 1v1
>proceeds to flame in balance section of fan-based forum
21 Oct 2018, 09:08 AM
#6
avatar of Finndeed
Strategist Badge

Posts: 586 | Subs: 1

Well, the OP might not have made his point very eloquently, but, i do think Volks with their STG's and with some vet might be too cost effective. The trouble being any over-performance of this unit is totally overshadowed by the outrageous performance of units like the Scot and Brummbar. Additionally, the easy access to, and pervasive allied meta of using light vehicles helps cover up/make up for any *base main line infantry* deficient in performance on the allies side.

Note: im not talking about any commander specific or other elite infantry, only basic infantry you have access to early in the game.
21 Oct 2018, 09:30 AM
#7
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 3119 | Subs: 1

Well, the OP might not have made his point very eloquently, but, i do think Volks with their STG's and with some vet might be too cost effective. The trouble being any over-performance of this unit is totally overshadowed by the outrageous performance of units like the Scot and Brummbar. Additionally, the easy access to, and pervasive allied meta of using light vehicles helps cover up/make up for any *base main line infantry* deficient in performance on the allies side.

Note: im not talking about any commander specific or other elite infantry, only basic infantry you have access to early in the game.

VG's ST44 are badly designed (and SVT also). The main problem with the ST44 VGs is that their performance is too good at all ranges and thus limits the benefits of relative positioning.

In addition anti garrison weapon should be limited to specialized units and not mainline infantry.

On the other hand their vet bonuses are inferior to other mainline infantry.

(edit to clarify that I was referring only to Vg ST44)
21 Oct 2018, 09:36 AM
#8
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 1496 | Subs: 1

I just switched OP's post with Riflemen. Am i a balance forum Expert now?



Riflemen are disgustingly good, need toning down!

They are too cheap, too spammble, consistent damage, they throw those Frag grenades like pro baseball players, plus they make the entire garrison/cover play style look like a joke and toward mid-late game are like terminators. Either do something about the BAR upgrade/Frag nade or make them more expensive to reinforce and call it a day.
21 Oct 2018, 10:18 AM
#9
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2759

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Oct 2018, 09:30 AMVipper

ST44 are badly designed (and SVT also). The main problem with the ST44 VGs is that their performance is too good at all ranges and thus limits the benefits of relative positioning.

In addition anti garrison weapon should be limited to specialized units and not mainline infantry.

On the other hand their vet bonuses are inferior to other mainline infantry.


Yes, the problem with volk squad is that it is good at all ranges and thus removes all the important factors from infantry engagements. That said, mentioning other stg44 squads and svt squads there is out of place. These are mid ranged weapons that have their distinctive role and range where they work the best. Definitely not jacks of all trades like volks.
21 Oct 2018, 10:21 AM
#10
avatar of Euan

Posts: 51

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Oct 2018, 09:30 AMVipper

ST44 are badly designed (and SVT also). The main problem with the ST44 VGs is that their performance is too good at all ranges and thus limits the benefits of relative positioning.

In addition anti garrison weapon should be limited to specialized units and not mainline infantry.

On the other hand their vet bonuses are inferior to other mainline infantry.


Findeed and Vipper are right (even if the OP may be ranting, he has a point). I've said it many times recently, I made a thread about this a year ago, and I said the same thing when the StG upgrade was introduced. You simply can't have a baseline inf unit that

a) 250mp 5-men squad (spammable, caps the map faster than any other army)
b) Has snare
c) Builds sandbags (so can win most defensive fights)
d) All-ranges StG upgrade (cheap, non-droppable, no tactical positioning or movement required)
e) Throws flame nade (automatically beats garrisons, known to YOLO MGs from the front)

It's stupid, it makes OKW the most boring army to play both as and against at the moment, at just about any skill level. Just change literally 1 of the above 5 things, and you'll probably get a fun and balanced matchup.
21 Oct 2018, 11:09 AM
#11
avatar of Dragonul09

Posts: 20

I just switched OP's post with Riflemen. Am i a balance forum Expert now?



Riflemen are disgustingly good, need toning down!

They are too cheap, too spammble, consistent damage, they throw those Frag grenades like pro baseball players, plus they make the entire garrison/cover play style look like a joke and toward mid-late game are like terminators. Either do something about the BAR upgrade/Frag nade or make them more expensive to reinforce and call it a day.


It doesnt really take a genius to realise that Volks are the best mainline infantry cost for cost, they are the jack of all trades and they are really good at it.

Riflemen are good, never said that, but USF lacks coherent tech-up making them very restrictive in their play style, they lack meatshield/tanks another big blow for mid-late game and somehow you find yourself in a not that great of a situation .The main problem is that OKW can afford to make some mistakes, USF no that much.
21 Oct 2018, 15:13 PM
#12
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 503

I'll be the second to ask: PLAYERCARD PLEASE?! We see that you're relatively new to the forums. Veterans of the balance forum are tired of addressing posts that are more of a whining nature.
21 Oct 2018, 15:56 PM
#13
avatar of Tactical Imouto

Posts: 92

I'll be the second to ask: PLAYERCARD PLEASE?! We see that you're relatively new to the forums. Veterans of the balance forum are tired of addressing posts that are more of a whining nature.


Opinions of top 300's might aswell be top 5k
21 Oct 2018, 15:59 PM
#14
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 10969 | Subs: 6



Opinions of top 300's might aswell be top 5k

R300 can be explained things.
R5k lives in its own world and is general waste of time.

Same with one faction heroes vs people who play both sides/all factions.
21 Oct 2018, 16:18 PM
#15
avatar of cyso

Posts: 49

Peoples of this Earth, look at this thread and you understand the truth - volks are so damned op and the only reason I lose. Relic, you tyrants, your evil plans have been brought to light in this thread, your game is over. Your plan to destroy the morale of the Allies and build a new realm on their ruins will fail. We will stand united and fight against this injustice.

I love this kind of thread so much. :banana:
21 Oct 2018, 16:26 PM
#16
avatar of ShadowLinkX37

Posts: 1694

All mainline = OP Therefore none are OP Kappa
21 Oct 2018, 18:38 PM
#17
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 1496 | Subs: 1



Opinions of top 300's might aswell be top 5k


i dindt see him make a balance whine post
21 Oct 2018, 21:04 PM
#18
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 1189 | Subs: 1

i too think that volks have a bit too much going for them, they are like cons that can fight.
building a defensive position? use volks
enemy garrison? volks
marauding tank needs snared? volks
need a beefy AI specialist that is good at all ranges ad on the move but will devastate any enemy that tries to close? yup. volks
cheap enough unit to have lots of presence? volks again...
counter blob? why not use volks?

okw has 3 core infantry units but its mostly volks that see ground time, its in part because the others need adjustment, but in part because you dont REALLY need anything else.

sturms should be made cheaper but lose 2 stgs with an option to specialize as AT (shrek, maybe tellers), AI (4 slightly stronger STGs, flame nades and a bonus against garrisons) or support (sweeper and repair bonus)

obers need to come sooner, thats really what it boils down to there. i personally like the split schwere idea where the jp4, p4 (maybe an unskirted version, or snub nose) and obers are available a bit sooner and then an upgrade for the gun and panther and KT and ober lmg34 so that they get a bit of field time before vetted upgunned allied infantry are running amok.

volks should fin in the middle, something to flesh out in between the 2 heavy lifters who naturally progress from CQB to long range combat as the former becomes more risky and less effective

but anything would be better than volks, volks, volks, volks, volks....
21 Oct 2018, 21:19 PM
#19
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 906 | Subs: 1

Volks punch way above their weight, some people have started going 5 Volks grenadiers, like in the finals in 2vs2 Revamp Tourney yesterday.
21 Oct 2018, 22:01 PM
#20
avatar of Hater

Posts: 395

Just passed by and reminded a funny thing: my unupgraded volks survive to vet5 more often than upgraded, lol.
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