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Teller mines and OHKs

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28 Sep 2018, 16:44 PM
#1
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

Teller mines are really powerful mines... and rightfully so ost is after all a defensive faction and tellers are damn expensive...

but the fact that they can OHK a T-70 or a stuart makes them very dominant in the light vehicle meta that exists today... i am totally fine with them dealing tons of damage after all 50 muni HAS to count for something...

however i feel tellers should at least leave a sliver of health remaining... what do u guys think?
28 Sep 2018, 17:02 PM
#2
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4

That would both:
1. Buff the t-70
2. Make the mobile defense puma even more attractive

I don't like OHK things though. It would require way more balancing between the factions than just changing the tellers.
28 Sep 2018, 17:07 PM
#3
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1

If you lose a T70 to a Teller it´s generally your own fault.

That being said I still dont think they are completly fair and balanced. Just not sure how to "fix" them. The thing that bothers me is that a 50 muni teller can pretty much end the game for Allies just because of one slight moment of being careless.
28 Sep 2018, 17:08 PM
#4
avatar of GreyKnight93

Posts: 84

As much as i felt OHK a light tank from a teller mine can feel frustrating, it does force out a minesweeper from the ally side to keep an eye out for more and making it's defensive capacity against any light tank assault from the flank, or at least slows down the assault. Osteer is a roundabout faction of all compare to other 4.

There is a conundrum issue regarding how to balance that out, Osteer's Anti Tank capacity is not cheap until they could get Stug 3 out. Other than that their light vehicle like the Scout Car are the only counter measure against the strong Light Vehicle that the allies posses. Pak 40 cost 320 mp and Pzgren with Shrek cost total of 340mp with 100 muni. And at the time of coming out it's causing the balance of power between mid game allies and mid game axis to be different, unless you field enough grenadier or support weapon enough to hold till late stage.

If lets say you make the teller mine take away 99% of the light vehicle health, i would say yeah it would be a sitting duck, but that vehicle itself could also turn itself a stationary turret against any infantry coming at it. And that doesn't sound prominent
28 Sep 2018, 18:09 PM
#5
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

As much as i felt OHK a light tank from a teller mine can feel frustrating, it does force out a minesweeper from the ally side to keep an eye out for more and making it's defensive capacity against any light tank assault from the flank, or at least slows down the assault. Osteer is a roundabout faction of all compare to other 4.

There is a conundrum issue regarding how to balance that out, Osteer's Anti Tank capacity is not cheap until they could get Stug 3 out. Other than that their light vehicle like the Scout Car are the only counter measure against the strong Light Vehicle that the allies posses. Pak 40 cost 320 mp and Pzgren with Shrek cost total of 340mp with 100 muni. And at the time of coming out it's causing the balance of power between mid game allies and mid game axis to be different, unless you field enough grenadier or support weapon enough to hold till late stage.

If lets say you make the teller mine take away 99% of the light vehicle health, i would say yeah it would be a sitting duck, but that vehicle itself could also turn itself a stationary turret against any infantry coming at it. And that doesn't sound prominent


if a teller took 99% of a T-70 or a stuarts HP a single faust or a 222 can easily knock it out... not exactly that difficult to knock out

besides a similar argument could be presented with the old democharge OHKing squads which was (rightfully but over) nerfed...
28 Sep 2018, 18:21 PM
#6
avatar of Kharn

Posts: 264

I think Teller mines should deal different damage to unit sizes. Light vehicles.

Though, the soviets dropping 2 mines, whats the damage comparison?
28 Sep 2018, 18:25 PM
#7
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2018, 18:21 PMKharn
I think Teller mines should deal different damage to unit sizes. Light vehicles.

Though, the soviets dropping 2 mines, whats the damage comparison?


would that even be possible?...

2 soviet mines couldnt OHK a luchs doe thats for sure... the teller for 10 muni less is far superior to the TM-33... however ostheer needs a strong mine since it lacks a powerful light vehicle... but an OHK mine is simply too much...
28 Sep 2018, 18:26 PM
#8
avatar of BeastHunter

Posts: 186

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2018, 18:09 PMgbem


if a teller took 99% of a T-70 or a stuarts HP a single faust or a 222 can easily knock it out... not exactly that difficult to knock out

besides a similar argument could be presented with the old democharge OHKing squads which was (rightfully but over) nerfed...


Another aproach could be to lower the damage significant (400-240/200) and giving it a bit more utility against vehicles by changing the damaged engine to a heavy engine damage. This would make it easier to do some follow up damage against light vehicles, stops even 320 hp vehicles from getting oneshottet and would be a lot more useful in the lategame against mediums or way overextending rare heavy vehicles.

If Tellermines get changed in this way they might lower the usage of riegelmines even more though.
28 Sep 2018, 18:28 PM
#9
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979



Another aproach could be to lower the damage significant (400-240/200) and giving it a bit more utility against vehicles by changing the damaged engine to a heavy engine damage. This would make it easier to do some follow up damage against light vehicles, stops even 320 hp vehicles from getting oneshottet and would be a lot more useful in the lategame against mediums or way overextending rare heavy vehicles.

If Tellermines get changed in this way they might lower the usage of riegelmines even more though.


does anyone even use riegelmines?
28 Sep 2018, 18:32 PM
#10
avatar of BeastHunter

Posts: 186

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2018, 18:28 PMgbem


does anyone even use riegelmines?


I do when i use 251 halftracks as forward reinforcement points. Fits pretty well in both doctrines that have access to them but unless you are in the lategame or just retreated your pioneers tellermines would do the same or a better job (400damage engine damage/320damage and tread damage)
28 Sep 2018, 22:23 PM
#11
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2018, 18:09 PMgbem


if a teller took 99% of a T-70 or a stuarts HP a single faust or a 222 can easily knock it out... not exactly that difficult to knock out

besides a similar argument could be presented with the old democharge OHKing squads which was (rightfully but over) nerfed...


Finaly some one with a reasonable argument involving tellers and demo,s.

Imo the price of demo,s needed to go up to 120 mun minimum. That was the only nerf required imo. That or an engineer being within a certain range.
Not making it more visible then a moving and cloaked at gun, not being able to put it on cap points. While cheaper it is nearly useless now.

I agree with the 99% hp damage idea on the teller. It incentivises follow up play and not no brain placement.

If that wont go, give it the demo treatment. No placing on roads and being visible to any and all infantry units. Ow and make the price 30 muni to soften such a nerf, but making it effectivy useless. This last bit is a joke ofcourse.
28 Sep 2018, 23:39 PM
#12
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

I've had more Teller mines swept or destroyed than I've had OHK a rushed allied vehicle.

A well placed teller mine can decisively swing a game by killing a rushed shock unit like the t-70, sure.

But the Teller mine also means that Ostheer can't place mines to hold off infantry without literally laying down signs for their opponent.

Also, katyushas are unparalleled minesweepers. :foreveralone: :guyokay:
28 Sep 2018, 23:44 PM
#13
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1

How tellers are different from demo charges? Except cheaper, auto triggering and effective against high-value targets...
29 Sep 2018, 02:17 AM
#14
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 450

I don't see an issue with it killing light vehicles. You could always plant two mines and do the same thing.
29 Sep 2018, 02:23 AM
#15
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

2 sov mines cant ko a luchs... hell a single tm33 cant even ko a kubelwagen... i understand why the teller is powerful but it shouldnt ohk lights...
29 Sep 2018, 03:40 AM
#16
avatar of Storm Elite

Posts: 246

I'm ALL for nerfing its damage and reducing its cost to 30 munitions.

Mines NEED to be laid as early as possible, and Tellers cost too much to start planting in the earliest stages of a match when Pioneers run around unopposed capping and building stuff.

I've literally been playing OKW more lately purely because I've been exploring defensive play and wanted to mine heavily, which I can do with Stormpioneers starting very early.

Of course, OKW mines are trash because they're triggered by infantry, but it's still more fun and more flexible to be able to plant mines earlier and in higher quantities than the situation with Teller Mines.

And in general, more AT mines = easier to defend your base and other key areas against brazen armor rushes.

So aye, I'm all for it as long as the cost is lowered sufficiently.
29 Sep 2018, 03:40 AM
#17
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

I don't see an issue with it killing light vehicles. You could always plant two mines and do the same thing.


Its not the same tho. The teller doesnt get "revealed" by a squad stepping on it
29 Sep 2018, 05:53 AM
#18
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Adds minesweeper as the cheapest option on the HANDS DOWN worst unit in the game, solves problem entirely...
29 Sep 2018, 06:52 AM
#19
avatar of Taksin02

Posts: 148


we need this on T-70
29 Sep 2018, 07:11 AM
#20
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

Adds minesweeper as the cheapest option on the HANDS DOWN worst unit in the game, solves problem entirely...


i dont mind mines being strong tbh... but it shouldnt oneshot... the demo was nerfed for that exact reason and i find it hypocritical that the teller isnt aswell
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