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4 Oct 2018, 19:04 PM
#1461
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3174 | Subs: 1

Shock grenades not on shared CD is big no no. A single infantry unit should not be capable of smoking and immediatly wiping an MG.
4 Oct 2018, 19:10 PM
#1462
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1046

Shock grenades not on shared CD is big no no. A single infantry unit should not be capable of smoking and immediatly wiping an MG.


+100000000

That was the whole point of sharing cooldowns. You shouldn't be allowed to just completely solo an mg like that.
18 of 18 Relic postsRelic 4 Oct 2018, 19:36 PM
#1463
avatar of Andy_RE
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 49 | Subs: 18

Hotfix is now live folks.
4 Oct 2018, 19:39 PM
#1464
avatar of RoastinGhost

Posts: 274

I agree, the non-shared cooldowns are liable to put Shocks into Overbuffed territory.

A minor thing, but the Thompson icon underneath the Cavalry Rifles symbol (which also contains a Thompson pointing the same way) looks kind of redundant and bad.
4 Oct 2018, 19:40 PM
#1465
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 549

Shock grenades not on shared CD is big no no. A single infantry unit should not be capable of smoking and immediatly wiping an MG.


But a single MG with zero micro or input should be able to stop shocks since they have no sprint and their smoke nade has no range? They should've never had shared grenade/smoke cooldown, thats goes against their whole design as breakthrough troops
Also Panzergrens can have sprint and bundle nade that do not share cooldowns and camo on top of that, any reason why Shocks should not be able to smoke and nade compared to that?
4 Oct 2018, 19:44 PM
#1466
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2679

The changes to covering fire make it a bit underwhelming IMO. I don’t see a lot of reason to reduce your own squad’s dps by 90% and make it unable to move for forcing walk speed and only -35% accuracy. On a one to one basis it doesn’t really seem to add up to me, and it seems like in 90% of scenarios it’d be more beneficial to just go and shoot them with the cav rifle squad instead.

The wc51 vet requirements still seem pretty high given that it doesn’t get shared vet anymore. In my experiences the thing vets super slow and now won’t start getting xp at all until you give it the mg.

I like the 250 being able to reinforce a lot. I kinda wish it was available only when locked down and not requiring vet1 though, as that would make it more of a defensive tool as it seems to be designed to be, and help differentiate it from the other halftrack.

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Oct 2018, 19:40 PMKirrik


But a single MG with zero micro or input should be able to stop shocks since they have no sprint and their smoke nade has no range? They should've never had shared grenade/smoke cooldown, thats goes against their whole design as breakthrough troops
Also Panzergrens can have sprint and bundle nade that do not share cooldowns and camo on top of that, any reason why Shocks should not be able to smoke and nade compared to that?

Yes, a single well positioned mg should be able to do it’s one job against a lone infantry squad. I don’t see what’s so weird about that. If it’s just a one on one scenario then you’ve messed up by walking into its arc if you can’t smoke and salvage the situation without an HE nade. You should flank it or put yourself in a position where you can bypass it with smoke without a nade.

Pgrens are not as tough as shocks and sprint does nothing about suppression. It’s useful but not the same as a smoke grenade given the situation.
4 Oct 2018, 19:45 PM
#1467
avatar of Kasarov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 324 | Subs: 2

I am concerned that Veteran Squad Leaders for German Infantry has just gone from being bad to being too good. Panzergrenadier bonus abilities, while neat, detracts from the theme of German Infantry and is more suited for mechanized themes.

Here's an alternate take: I think the mark target should be given to Pioneers instead (as they have an unused voice line for this!) with the requirement of the squad leader. The Grenadiers might be able to throw M24 grenade assaults with the squad leader. Remove the passive bonus effects of squad leaders. This makes the squad leaders give additional utility and durability rather than flat combat effectiveness. That combat effectiveness boost is already present in the new Assault and Hold ability, anyway.
4 Oct 2018, 19:48 PM
#1468
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3174 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Oct 2018, 19:40 PMKirrik


But a single MG with zero micro or input should be able to stop shocks since they have no sprint and their smoke nade has no range? They should've never had shared grenade/smoke cooldown, thats goes against their whole design as breakthrough troops
Also Panzergrens can have sprint and bundle nade that do not share cooldowns and camo on top of that, any reason why Shocks should not be able to smoke and nade compared to that?


Yeah when the pgren sprint camo meta comes around you tell me. MGs are intended to counter advancing troops, their drawback is setup time and limited firing arc. Both grenades off CD just says you're incapable of smoke and flank and instead just want to run headfirst into an MG, smoke it and then attempt to wipe it for the expense of 2 button clicks.
4 Oct 2018, 19:51 PM
#1469
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 549



Yeah when the pgren sprint camo meta comes around you tell me. MGs are intended to counter advancing troops, their drawback is setup time and limited firing arc. Both grenades off CD just says you're incapable of smoke and flank and instead just want to run headfirst into an MG, smoke it and then attempt to wipe it for the expense of 2 button clicks.

Everything you just claimed here could be said about sprinting PGrens and maxim. In fact bundle nade is far more devastating compared to firecracker nade Shocks have, and maxim is far worse at stopping sprinting/smoking troops compared to MG42 yet that combo is not a problem for you while Shocks nades are?
Also post again when Shocks become meta again, because PGrens are quite common compared to Shocks.
4 Oct 2018, 19:52 PM
#1470
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2679

I am concerned that Veteran Squad Leaders for German Infantry has just gone from being bad to being too good. Panzergrenadier bonus abilities, while neat, detracts from the theme of German Infantry and is more suited for mechanized themes.

Here's an alternate take: I think the mark target should be given to Pioneers instead (as they have an unused voice line for this!) with the requirement of the squad leader. The Grenadiers might be able to throw M24 grenade assaults with the squad leader. Remove the passive bonus effects of squad leaders. This makes the squad leaders give additional utility and durability rather than flat combat effectiveness. That combat effectiveness boost is already present in the new Assault and Hold ability, anyway.

Depending on how much dps the new changes to the ability actually adds, I think that theoretically it’s a good change. It should keep grenadiers competitive with allied infantry at least to nearly the same degree as g43s or the lmg42, as was not the case in previous iterations according to a lot of people (I wasn’t really sure how it compared) just so they can survive and continue to trade as they should (they are the most expensive mainline infantry to reinforce man for man). I like the idea of m24 assaults though, adds some new flavor and kind of makes sense, but they shouldn’t be forced to crutch off of it for lack of adequate dps.
4 Oct 2018, 19:52 PM
#1471
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3174 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Oct 2018, 19:51 PMKirrik

Everything you just claimed here could be said about sprinting PGrens and maxim. In fact bundle nade is far more devastating compared to firecracker nade Shocks have, and maxim is far worse at stopping sprinting/smoking troops compared to MG42 yet that combo is not a problem for you while shocks nades are?


And if you lose the MG42 to soviets? vs the losing a maxim to ostheer? Which is worse, a 4 man maxim, which is now even more subpar, or a 6 man MG42.....
4 Oct 2018, 19:53 PM
#1472
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 549



And if you lose the MG42 to soviets? vs the losing a maxim to ostheer? Which is worse, a 4 man maxim, which is now even more subpar, or a 6 man MG42.....


Then you got outplayed. Congrats to Soviet player.
4 Oct 2018, 19:54 PM
#1473
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3174 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Oct 2018, 19:53 PMKirrik


Then you got outplayed. Congrats to Soviet player.


You heard it here folks. smoke and HE grenades into MG = outplayed. Go recover the 6 man MG42 now. XDDDDD
4 Oct 2018, 19:54 PM
#1474
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 549



You heard it here folks. smoke and HE grenades into MG = outplayed. Go recover the 6 man MG42 now. XDDDDD


Maybe you should not left MG42 completely alone against CQC elite troops meant to break through MG lines?
4 Oct 2018, 19:56 PM
#1475
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13678 | Subs: 7

Let me remind you bois that we had separate shock nades cooldowns for 4 out of 5 years of this games life time, no one complained about them for these 4 years and the very moment they got shared cooldown, shocks themselves disappeared form any and all BOs, giving supreme reign to guards.

Now, soviet FHQ - its getting weird, now you also need to micro structures...

I agree with previous statement about PGs getting repairs in infantry doctrine, that ability screams "mechanized" and would be much more suitable there.

Gren squad leader might become complete no brainer now, making them budget tommies, but without any weakness of tommies and with all the benefits(outside of equipping weapons for obvious reason).

250 being allowed to reinforce completely invalidates 251 and makes getting grillwagon even more of a no brainer choice
4 Oct 2018, 19:59 PM
#1476
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3174 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Oct 2018, 19:54 PMKirrik


Maybe you should not left MG42 completely alone against CQC elite troops meant to break through MG lines?


Yeah ok. Why not just make shocks immune to suppression. Hell they'd work a lot better then as breakthrough troops. And you could save munis by not even throwing grenades.

Tbh i give up on convicing you. I don't have too so long as others agree.
4 Oct 2018, 20:01 PM
#1477
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 549



Yeah ok. Why not just make shocks immune to suppression. Hell they'd work a lot better then as breakthrough troops. And you could save munis by not even throwing grenades.

Tbh i give up on convicing you. I don't have too so long as others agree.


You dont have to convince me at all, you need to convince balance team. I doubt wehraboos agreeing with you will have much effect
4 Oct 2018, 20:13 PM
#1478
avatar of Kasarov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 324 | Subs: 2


Depending on how much dps the new changes to the ability actually adds, I think that theoretically it’s a good change. It should keep grenadiers competitive with allied infantry at least to nearly the same degree as g43s or the lmg42, as was not the case in previous iterations according to a lot of people (I wasn’t really sure how it compared) just so they can survive and continue to trade as they should (they are the most expensive mainline infantry to reinforce man for man). I like the idea of m24 assaults though, adds some new flavor and kind of makes sense, but they shouldn’t be forced to crutch off of it for lack of adequate dps.


I'm worried primarily about PzGren package being lumped in. However, I feel that it can be salvaged by giving utility to squads already affected by Veteran Squad Leaders.

I'm all for making the G43 transferrable rather than a 10% upgrade to accuracy. I think it needs to be said that the goal should not be to make something that can compete with the MG42 or G43 package in DPS, just as how MP40s for Volks shouldn't be competing with StG44s for DPS. Besides, the extra man boosts DPS by 20% already, plus you can potentially still pick up slot weapons. It should by all accounts be less DPS but more utility and survivability. The commander already adds a 25% timed accuracy boosts as well via Assault and Hold, which is basically better OKW Breakthrough as-is. Adding too much value just makes it a no-brainer upgrade.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that I'm worried it's a no-brainer upgrade right now because it has good DPS upgrade and good durability upgrade but doesn't have any flavor. A utility-focused approach instead of raw DPS is something that Wehr doesn't currently have, is flavorful and thematic, and synergizes well with (and adds skill elements to) the new Assault and Hold.
4 Oct 2018, 20:13 PM
#1479
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 860

I agree with Vipper that the USF mech has been stuffed with far too many abilities and units. It's insane, so insane TwistedTootsy will be rank 1 USF lvl if this goes live.


Incediryround:( and viper two coh2 experts
This commander is decent actualy because these units are situational only noob use all of them in same time. Anyway Usf need lategame commanders so thats the reason they buff sherman 76.
4 Oct 2018, 20:16 PM
#1480
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1279 | Subs: 2

I honestly don't see the appeal in Mechanized vs Armor.
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