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13 Sep 2018, 17:19 PM
#761
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1852 | Subs: 1

Big Post (Sorry in Advance) My impression as of 1.4. Commanders ranked roughly in best revamp (usable) to worst (maybe fun to use but not try-hard). Mostly from a 1v1 perspective. I've highlighted my biggest beefs for stuff that needs changed.

NKDV - Love this revamp. Commisar adds ton of utility along with solid early-late game abilities. Minor quibbles- Retreat point doesn't seem useful without healing. Scorched Earth Fire seems random - sometimes doesn't prevent capping as well as you would like.

Urban - KV2 adds the late-game punch this commander needed and finally puts it in a good place for me. M42 is good enough that it almost feels too cheap for all the utility. Booby Traps are good enough I wouldn't mind if they are in the new commander to be realeased. Haven't tested Shocks extensively but I assume they are more usable.

Mechanized - 1.4 FINNALLY The Mechanized we deserve. Dodge Truck capping means you can put it in your build order without having it be a call-in to be useful and expanded ability range means it's conceivable to actually use those abilities now without the truck getting vaporized by a tank. Calvary at 1 CP is a good fit build order wise and they don't feel too strong (plus they are just fun to use) Combined Arms is great thematically AND useful. Reserve Armor still feels borderline-meme unit - 80 for Dozer blade is too expensive IMO and I don't know if 76 MM Sherman will ever fit in USF roster without slight Penetration buff.

Armor - Overhaul wise not a lot changed but it's a lot more usable now. Assault Engineers give you early game utility in what otherwise used to be just a call-in commander. I don't like how long the Elite Crew upgrade takes (you have to disembark to upgrade and have your tank sitting around exposed = not friendly to use at all). If possible can you make upgrade when crew is inside vehicle? M10, Bulldozer and Arty all feel "good enough" to be usable but not good enough that I think it'll be super meta to use.


Tactical Support
- Buffed Crocodile and mobile mortar is only thing that makes me feel like using this commander. Sapper is good but I think will mostly be used to replace lost Sappers and supplement late-game repairs. Forward Post is more usable but the call-ins themselves are too situational to consider using. The straffing run in particular is buggy and targets vehicles - it needs to be fixed to be like Vanguard Typhoons or IL-2.

Elite Armor - Good changes but needs early-game ability to be truly viable. I'd be down for 223 as mentioned above. Otherwise Repairs/HEAT/Panzer Commander make it compelling to use. Sturmtiger I don't know if I see myself using it in 1v1.

Infantry - 5 man upgrade is big but it just feels too clunky to use alongside 2(!) Infantry call-ins. Tactical Movement is pretty meh (I'd have rather you kept Reserve Infantry). I LOVE the new Stormtroopers - Camo ambushes with Tactical Assault and booby troops are very fun. I think you need to get rid of Arty Officer and sub in better supporting abilities so you can fully utilize 5 man squads and Stormtroopers.


Artillery
- It's "fine" but not for 1v1 IMO - mostly a team game commander. Valentine is still pretty worthless outside of Sexton synergy. But I think it could shine in team games where your teammates can cover for your deficiencies. Perimeter Overwatch works better - not sure how well in team games if you have to be the one who captured the territory or if it's all friendly.

Defensive - I could see this being usable now as a meme off-Meta Red Wings kind of way but it's not attractive to me personally. New StuG E is good but I think the more meta commanders will still overshadow this one.


Overwatch
- Buffed Jaegers are cool but it just makes me want to use Salvage instead. LeFH is nice for team games I guess and this gives you another option. Still very underwhelming. Can we do something with Goliaths? (maybe have them be able to "set up" on a point/garrison and turn it into a booby trap?)


13 Sep 2018, 17:19 PM
#762
avatar of Nick Banana

Posts: 96

why replace sturmtiger with Tiger when you have better version?
13 Sep 2018, 17:25 PM
#763
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

why replace sturmtiger with Tiger when you have better version?


You really think Tiger 1 is better than 2, or that the latter is anything more than a "i lose button" ?
13 Sep 2018, 17:46 PM
#764
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

Mechanized is getting much better, buti dislike the direction taken for 76mm Shermans. They are supposed to offer a different gameplay from standard allies infantry support tank by adding a generalist. Consider upping the fuel cost back again and buffing the penetration at long and medium range.
13 Sep 2018, 17:47 PM
#765
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17619 | Subs: 9

Mechanized is getting much better, buti dislike the direction taken for 76mm Shermans. They are supposed to offer a different gameplay from standard allies infantry support tank by adding a generalist. Consider upping the fuel cost back again and buffing the penetration.

You've described EZ8.
13 Sep 2018, 17:51 PM
#766
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Sep 2018, 17:47 PMKatitof

You've described EZ8.


Which shows the nonsensical mess that is premium medium class.
The ez8 was basically m4 76mm with better mobility for rough terrain and a one-piece glacis that slighly improved hull armor. Both should be rebalanced.

I can't see why EZ8 can't become a panther equivalent slighly cheaper but with less armor
13 Sep 2018, 18:00 PM
#767
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1852 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Sep 2018, 17:47 PMKatitof

You've described EZ8.


I agree but 76MM needs to stand out somewhere in order for it to be worthwhile - the problem for me is that 76MM doesn't offer enough incentive to build it (10 fuel for 10 more penetration, faster reload and No HE Shells) I'd gladly sacrifice 10 Penetration to have the flexibility of HE shells with Jackson to fall back on for AT. I don't know if buffing Penetration is the answer but it needs a little something somewhere.
13 Sep 2018, 18:13 PM
#768
avatar of Sully

Posts: 390 | Subs: 2

If we're going to keep the LEFH for Overwatch, can we give it a better vet 5 ability? Maybe something like artillery flares, or a phosphorus/fire/airbust barrage that doesn't share a cooldown with the main barrage?

Short range direct fire abilities on artillery has never worked.
13 Sep 2018, 18:27 PM
#769
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 573

Has balance team considered just merging E8 and 76mm Sherman?
These two units despite being basically a same thing (sherman with 76mm cannon) behave VERY differently, on low vets E8 is kinda better since it can surive one more shot from AT, but at high vet or Combined Arms buff 76mm becomes monster, perhaps you should just give 76mm sherman 80 more HP then reduce its reload speed and merge both units into one
13 Sep 2018, 18:29 PM
#770
avatar of A. Soldier

Posts: 3094 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Sep 2018, 18:13 PMSully
If we're going to keep the LEFH for Overwatch, can we give it a better vet 5 ability? Maybe something like artillery flares, or a phosphorus/fire/airbust barrage that doesn't share a cooldown with the main barrage?

Short range direct fire abilities on artillery has never worked.


I found myself using the B4 direct fire maybe 2 out of the 5 or 6 times in total I used the gun.

But I agree in general with you, it's extremely situational.
13 Sep 2018, 18:56 PM
#771
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1852 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Sep 2018, 18:27 PMKirrik
Has balance team considered just merging E8 and 76mm Sherman?
These two units despite being basically a same thing (sherman with 76mm cannon) behave VERY differently, on low vets E8 is kinda better since it can surive one more shot from AT, but at high vet or Combined Arms buff 76mm becomes monster, perhaps you should just give 76mm sherman 80 more HP then reduce its reload speed and merge both units into one


I suppose another interesting change would be to add Vet to the 76MM where it gets +80 health somewhere. I think that would be a big enough change to make it worthwhile without becoming broken.
13 Sep 2018, 20:09 PM
#772
avatar of LemonJuice

Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7

you have to be very careful with adding health to tanks because it changes the shots to kill, and is a really powerful power spike.

for elite armored i think having prenerf sturmtiger (like couple patches ago prenerf), raising cost to jt/kt levels, making it mutually exclusive with kt, increasing cp cost, and perhaps reducing armor abit is the way to go. or if you really want to make commanders thematic switch cmd panther with sturmtiger.

also ive said this before, but recovery sapper resource gain is absolutely pitiful
13 Sep 2018, 20:33 PM
#773
avatar of RoastinGhost

Posts: 416 | Subs: 1

For British Tactical Support, I agree that the mortar and crocodile are pretty much the reasons to pick it. Since the crocodile appears in 2/8 anyway, I think it should be replaced and other abilities brought up a bit.

I'd like to see a 1CP ability that adds 2 of these; Recon Section, Buildable Medics, and rifle grenade for Infantry. British Commanders rarely affect the early game, so it would be unique in that sense. Recon and Grenades fit the indirect fire theme of the commander, and are CoH1 callbacks. Medics would save some munitions and make the loss of the Forward Assembly's medics easier.

Reducing the cost of Forward Observation abilities by say 25% would be useful.


also ive said this before, but recovery sapper resource gain is absolutely pitiful


I thought the gains were normalized between salvagers a while back, but apparently it's different between OKW and British (/formerly Soviet)? That's odd and should be looked at, but unfortunately seems a bit beyond the scope of this patch.

I also think that the airdrop is remarkably inexpensive for what it does; it sure would be nice if USF Airborne drops were cheaper/combined. But again, outside the scope of the patch <444>_<444>
13 Sep 2018, 20:40 PM
#774
avatar of A. Soldier

Posts: 3094 | Subs: 2

For British Tactical Support, I agree that the mortar and crocodile are pretty much the reasons to pick it. Since the crocodile appears in 2/8 anyway, I think it should be replaced and other abilities brought up a bit.

I'd like to see a 1CP ability that adds 2 of these; Recon Section, Buildable Medics, and rifle grenade for Infantry. British Commanders rarely affect the early game, so it would be unique in that sense. Recon and Grenades fit the indirect fire theme of the commander, and are CoH1 callbacks. Medics would save some munitions and make the loss of the Forward Assembly's medics easier.

Reducing the cost of Forward Observation abilities by say 25% would be useful.



I thought the gains were normalized between salvagers a while back, but apparently it's different between OKW and British (/formerly Soviet)? That's odd and should be looked at, but unfortunately seems a bit beyond the scope of this patch.

I also think that the airdrop is remarkably inexpensive for what it does; it sure would be nice if USF Airborne drops were cheaper/combined. But again, outside the scope of the patch <444>_<444>


There is also an observation officer that has a Sexton Airbust victor target, could probably be changed to base 25 pounders firing it.
13 Sep 2018, 21:55 PM
#775
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned
Agreed that raising health of mediums is dangerous. SU already have the T34/85 which is already 5 hit kill and if M4C gets health buffed or replaced with EZ8, the Soviets will have too many prediums. I think the 76mm sherman as jagd wolfe said simply needs to have better penentration and up the cost back. It should be sorta like the chassis of a sherman and the gun of an EZ8
13 Sep 2018, 21:55 PM
#776
avatar of Burts

Posts: 1702

Regarding the STUG E, it really should require atleast battlephase 2 now. The main reason why it was nerfed to 400 health was because of the call in meta. If it doesn't require any teching, ostheer will just go back to STUG E > Tiger stalling meta again.

I dont think many people realize that that metagame went out of fashion some patches ago precisely because the STUG E was pretty heavily nerfed. Back then it didin't even have it's arced fire, meaning it couldn't fire over buildings/bushes which honestly means it will be even better than before now.
13 Sep 2018, 23:55 PM
#777
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

Agreed that raising health of mediums is dangerous. SU already have the T34/85 which is already 5 hit kill and if M4C gets health buffed or replaced with EZ8, the Soviets will have too many prediums. I think the 76mm sherman as jagd wolfe said simply needs to have better penentration and up the cost back. It should be sorta like the chassis of a sherman and the gun of an EZ8


Dangerous perhaps, but it may be most appropriate for the stock USF Sherman, and even then only as a veterancy bonus.

Really, the panthers and the JP4 really shouldn't be so unique in this. (I think those are the only two tanks that really get a boost to health with vet.)

Boosting the health of call-in no-tech mediums is far more risky a gamble to make. Providing health bonuses without a requirement of vet or some kind of teching or upgrade is likewise dangerous.

But in many ways I think many of the people that were around for the old StuG E and its nerfing have since moved on, and we're starting to seeing people without that history (or memory) of efforts to balance this game come around.
14 Sep 2018, 01:35 AM
#778
avatar of miragefla
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13



But in many ways I think many of the people that were around for the old StuG E and its nerfing have since moved on, and we're starting to seeing people without that history (or memory) of efforts to balance this game come around.


Trust me, I remember that phase, but the StuG E can easily be adjusted. Some of its survivability might go or it can have its offense cut. I've already discussed this with others given it's dirt cheap and a call-in.

Thing is, do people want it to be a considerable damage dealer to infantry with minimal defense outside of its 140 armour, or have enough HP/RA to live longer on the field to sustain DPS.

14 Sep 2018, 01:46 AM
#779
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4142 | Subs: 3



Trust me, I remember that phase, but the StuG E can easily be adjusted. Some of its survivability might go or it can have its offense cut. I've already discussed this with others given it's dirt cheap and a call-in.

Thing is, do people want it to be a considerable damage dealer to infantry with minimal defense outside of its 140 armour, or have enough HP/RA to live longer on the field to sustain DPS.



When we tested it the other day, what if you lowered the AoE by say 25%-30% but it got it back at say vet 3?
14 Sep 2018, 06:54 AM
#780
avatar of MakiesKurisu

Posts: 130

Idea about M10, how about making it can be built in HQ when both T1 and T2 are obtained.
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