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Lend-Lease Numbers

14 Sep 2018, 13:00 PM
#21
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jump backJump back to quoted post14 Sep 2018, 08:01 AMKasarov
Interesting. M3 Halftracks sent to UK/USSR: 2 each?
More like Super Special Weapons Regiment.

Also I should point out that apparently some of the Soviet skins cover the M3 halftrack but because it's so ahistorical I'd vote against it anyway

The WC-51 would definitely be much more historically accurate as a weapons carrier for the Brits. Other options would be the M3A1 Scout Car or M5A1 Halftrack, but definitely not the M3.
14 Sep 2018, 13:34 PM
#22
avatar of Osinyagov
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The units in the actual game are often named incorrectly - therefore this thread deals only with the available models in the game files. Since the model with the quad-mounted .50 is based on the M5, I would say it's an M17 and simply named incorrectly in the Tactical Support Company, even though the M17 wasn't used by US forces, as far as I know.


Once again


Actually, both models in the game are M3 Halftrack, soviet one is littlechanged M3 model from vCoH.


It is more like two different models for M3 Halftrack, instead of special model for each halftrack. Quad-mounted M45 is also from vCoH.


And main visual difference between M5 and M3 in real life - M5 has rounded rear corners.

15 Sep 2018, 14:42 PM
#23
avatar of LoopDloop

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In the source I have linked, the Thompson is not explicitly listed. It says "Submachine, Cal. .45, All Types" with 880195 sent in total. Of these, 651086 were sent to the British Empire (so that might include Canada, Australia, NZ and others) and 137729 to the USSR. However, the only other SMG the US produced in large numbers was the M3 (Grease Gun), but as far as I know, it wasn't used by the British or the Soviets - leaving only the Thompson.

Well I guess it really is the “Tommy” Gun then XD

And I’ve never heard of British troops using the M3 either.
15 Sep 2018, 15:17 PM
#24
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Well I guess it really is the “Tommy” Gun then XD

And I’ve never heard of British troops using the M3 either.

Small update:

* The document only lists "Cal .45 Submachine Guns" without further distinction. From what I have gathered, the numbers include a large number of Thompson SMGs and a smaller number of Reising SMGs. The Grease Gun was not sent under Lend-Lease.

** The USSR received M1928A1 Thompson SMGs together with M3 Stuart Light Tanks. However, the SMGs were not used because the Red Army feared ammunition shortages for the .45 ACP round.

As far as I understand, the Reising was not used in actual combat much. Here's some more information about it.
15 Sep 2018, 16:44 PM
#25
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** The USSR received M1928A1 Thompson SMGs together with M3 Stuart Light Tanks. However, the SMGs were not used because the Red Army feared ammunition shortages for the .45 ACP round.


Actually, google says it was used by Red Army
15 Sep 2018, 20:09 PM
#26
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I've read conflicting reports. Some say they were only used for propaganda photos. In any case, the model they received - the M1928A1 - is not in the game :(
16 Sep 2018, 13:39 PM
#27
avatar of Crecer13

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Small update:


As far as I understand, the Reising was not used in actual combat much. Here's some more information about it.


135,000 of 137,129 all submachine guns of 0.45 caliber was Thompson, the rest probably M50 Reising.
16 Sep 2018, 13:56 PM
#28
avatar of Crecer13

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I've read conflicting reports. Some say they were only used for propaganda photos. In any case, the model they received - the M1928A1 - is not in the game :(


Thompsons did not gain popularity in the USSR because:
- too small effective range of fire, about 75 meters near the PPSh / PPS about 150 meters
- sensitive to contamination
- insufficient ammunition received
- mass production of PPSh - about 6 million and PPS - 2 million (from 1942 to 1945)

But this is not true. Thompson was used, people who are engaged in the search for the remains and the clutching of soldiers found a lot of Thompsons and cartridges in many places: Murmansk, Leningrad, Pskov, Voronezh regions, Crimea, Kuban. Especially a lot in places where the hardest battles of 1941-42 were. Tikhvin, Luga, Rzhev, Korotoyak.

16 Sep 2018, 14:37 PM
#29
avatar of AvNY

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If you want to justify use of a weapons system based on Lend Lease, that should not be hard at all. There will be a lot more Lend lease items of any kind that was shipped than there were of most of the German weapons systems that are today considered by COH1 and 2 aseveryday items used by the Germans.

Only a few 10,000s Thompsans in use by the Soviets? No problem. Only 7200 FG42s of all variants were produced by the Germans, and many of those had flaws.

Want to justify any armored vehicle? Only 40 Ostwinds were ever made. The Bergtiger is non-doc in PE/COH1, but only 1 of something that MIGHT be considered a Bergtiger was ever found, and that one might have been unable to do much. There were a few Bergpanthers, but only a few.

Want to justify a light vehicle? Only 200 20mm Pumas were ever made and only 100 of the upgunned versions. Too bad. had the Germans realized how well they performed in COH1 and 2 maybe they could have made 1000s and won the war. ;)
17 Sep 2018, 01:30 AM
#30
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Sep 2018, 14:37 PMAvNY
If you want to justify use of a weapons system based on Lend Lease, that should not be hard at all. There will be a lot more Lend lease items of any kind that was shipped than there were of most of the German weapons systems that are today considered by COH1 and 2 aseveryday items used by the Germans.

Only a few 10,000s Thompsans in use by the Soviets? No problem. Only 7200 FG42s of all variants were produced by the Germans, and many of those had flaws.

Want to justify any armored vehicle? Only 40 Ostwinds were ever made. The Bergtiger is non-doc in PE/COH1, but only 1 of something that MIGHT be considered a Bergtiger was ever found, and that one might have been unable to do much. There were a few Bergpanthers, but only a few.

Want to justify a light vehicle? Only 200 20mm Pumas were ever made and only 100 of the upgunned versions. Too bad. had the Germans realized how well they performed in COH1 and 2 maybe they could have made 1000s and won the war. ;)


XD XD XD

Lol

Don’t let the wheraboos find out that their master race army is a fantasy.
17 Sep 2018, 12:52 PM
#31
avatar of AvNY

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Here are some youtubes on the subject of Lend Lease from youtubers who do real reasearch on their topics.

They also mention and I believe link to source material so you can dig deeper yourself.

I believe most of these came about from some internet dustup about whether or not Lend Lease was key, or irrelevant, to Soviet victory over the Germans. (My own takeaway, neither necessary, no irrelevant, but somewhere in the middle.)





8 Oct 2018, 11:44 AM
#32
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Here is some information about British shipments to the USSR.
8 Oct 2018, 12:58 PM
#33
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Here is some information about British shipments to the USSR.


PIAT set in the USSR? I have not seen a single photo of PIAT in the USSR and have not seen a single mention of the combat use of PIAT by Soviet soldiers.
8 Oct 2018, 13:07 PM
#34
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From what I have read, Red Army officials were quite sceptic about handheld AT weapons supplied from the US and UK. They were quite happy with their PTRD and PTRS rifles and wanted something with similar range. That seems to be the reason why the Bazooka did not see much use and it might also be the reason why the PIAT wasn't used at all.

http://tankarchives.blogspot.com/2017/08/lend-lease-impressions-bazooka.html
Sadly, I can't read the original source they linked.
8 Oct 2018, 13:33 PM
#35
avatar of Crecer13

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From what I have read, Red Army officials were quite sceptic about handheld AT weapons supplied from the US and UK. They were quite happy with their PTRD and PTRS rifles and wanted something with similar range. That seems to be the reason why the Bazooka did not see much use and it might also be the reason why the PIAT wasn't used at all.

http://tankarchives.blogspot.com/2017/08/lend-lease-impressions-bazooka.html
Sadly, I can't read the original source they linked.


One of the reasons why in the USSR the bazooka was recognized as unsatisfactory was that when the M9 bazooka and Panzerschreck appeared, the battery was extremely unreliable. But Bazooka was precisely used by Soviet soldiers in 1942 and in the battle for Berlin.

in the USSR, the development of anti-tank grenade launchers was carried out back in the 1930s. But the main drawback of these guns - they fired with ordinary shells and not with a cumulative effect. But one was very close - a 65-mm recoilless rifle. It was developed in 1931. But there were still many problems to be solved in order to achieve reliability from missiles and, most importantly, accuracy sufficient to defeat a single small-sized target. However, after the death of Petropavlovsk in 1933, this development was not continued.


After the capture of Panzerfaust, the interest of the USSR in anti-tank grenade launchers increased again. The RPG-1 was developed in 1944, but the refinement of grenades before 1948 made this grenade obsolete. But for the USSR it was no longer critical, anti-tank grenade launchers were good at defending, and by that time the USSR was advancing, plus Germany had become reliable suppliers of Panzerfaust - in 1945, during the battle for Berlin, one infantry brigade numbering 4,000 people had 3000 Panzerfaust.
14 Jun 2019, 16:30 PM
#36
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https://warspot.ru/13725-tridtsatchyotverka-na-gastrolyah

Interesting information The T-34 and KV-1 were sent to Britain and in Britain were going to produce a modified T-34 with a 17-pound. But most likely this did not happen because at that time Comet was developed, which consisted of 40% of Cromwell parts.
17 Jun 2019, 12:43 PM
#37
23 Nov 2019, 18:47 PM
#38
avatar of CODGUY

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USSR get 1 M26 in april 1945 for testing. Source: https://warspot.ru/9851-tank-tyazhyolyy-ponevole (include screns of soviet documents about M26 and his photo in Kubinka)


The US sent the Soviets a Pershing in mid-1945? That was a stupid thing to do.
23 Nov 2019, 20:35 PM
#39
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jump backJump back to quoted post23 Nov 2019, 18:47 PMCODGUY


The US sent the Soviets a Pershing in mid-1945? That was a stupid thing to do.


Nothing stupid here, since we were friends and allies in this war.

I am interested, did Americans and British asked for our most modern tanks, like T-34-85 or IS-2 for same investigations, like was with M26?
I know only about tests with KV-1 and T-34. Even saw the information, that British did have plans for producing T-34 on their factories (!!!), but it never happened. Credits to Crecer13 for this source: https://warspot.ru/13725-tridtsatchyotverka-na-gastrolyah
24 Nov 2019, 00:48 AM
#40
avatar of Harry

Posts: 104

Just for the M10 or M10A1 question, it is almost impossible to identify only by visually seeing it. However, since in the game it received M93 shot, it is possible that it is a late variant and highly possible that it is an M10A1. Also, I have no direct sources prove that the Soviets received any M10A1, though.
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