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King Tiger balance fix: smoke launchers

4 Jul 2018, 09:57 AM
#1
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1775 | Subs: 2

So the KT used to be the Iwin button and was basically the destroyer of squads. Now it got nerfed so much that it generally isn't worth the immense cost. It's practically never used in any of the higher ranked matches.

I personally think the KT's general performance right now is pretty balanced, but it gets countered too easily by the much cheaper tank destroyers. One of the biggest problems is that tank destroyers can just kite it at max range, leaving the KT completely helpless because of its lesser range and slow speed.

Instead of buffing its damage output (potentially increasing the wiping potential again) there are two options readily available. The first would be to buff its armor, giving it much better protection against tank destroyers at max range. This would however create similar problems as before when the KT was invulnerable at range and would even bounce a lot at close range.


Therefore I would propose another solution: giving it smoke launchers as a standard ability. It could be similar to the Wehrmacht's doctrinal smoke launchers, although a bigger cloud wouldn't hurt because of its slow speed. A smoke screen would allow the KT to retreat in situations it would otherwise get eaten alive by TDs. Yet with the attack attack ground mechanics, it would still be somewhat counterable for the Allies.

Also lowering its vet requirement wouldn't hurt because it can barely get past vet2-3 because it arrives so late.

What do you guys think?

Several different proposals:

- add smoke launchers ability to increase survivability


- decrease veterancy requirements because it arrives so late it generally can't get past vet2-3.


Other reasonable proposals suggested by others:

- increase damage output consistancy similar to the recent Brumbar changes. Better accuracy/scatter for the main gun but the aeo damage being spread out over a larger area. This would decrease full squad wiping potential and instead deal consistant health and model damage to infantry.


- decrease far range penetration of AT guns and TDs now that the Panther's armor has been nerfed in the recent patch. This would increase the KT's frontal protection at long range and leave it less vulnerable/helpless against max range kiting TDs. (Simply increasing the KT's armor could cause problems for all AT weapons chance to penetrate?)


- add heavy tank trait to KT (and all other heavies) that snares to the front armor can not do engine criticals. Only rear armor hit snares would have a chance to do engine critical.


- keep performance the same but decrease the cost and popcap to make it more accessable.


- move Spearhead ability to vet 1
4 Jul 2018, 10:01 AM
#2
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 5686 | Subs: 1

Damage output should become more consistent while less lethal. In other words reduce kill radius and scatter.

The far penetration of allied TDs could go down since the armor of the Panther has been reduced.
4 Jul 2018, 10:15 AM
#3
avatar of adamírcz

Posts: 671 | Subs: 1

So the KT used to be the Iwin button and was basically the destroyer of squads. Now it got nerfed so much that it generally isn't worth the immense cost. It's practically never used in any of the higher ranked matches.

I personally think the KT's general performance right now is pretty balanced, but it gets countered too easily by the much cheaper tank destroyers. One of the biggest problems is that tank destroyers can just kite it at max range, leaving the KT completely helpless because of its lesser range and slow speed.

Instead of buffing its damage output (potentially increasing the wiping potential again) there are two options readily available. The first would be to buff its armor, giving it much better protection against tank destroyers at max range. This would however create similar problems as before when the KT was invulnerable at range and would even bounce a lot at close range.


Therefore I would propose another solution: giving it smoke launchers as a standard ability. It could be similar to the Wehrmacht's doctrinal smoke launchers, although a bigger cloud wouldn't hurt because of its slow speed. A smoke screen would allow the KT to retreat in situations it would otherwise get eaten alive by TDs. Yet with the attack attack ground mechanics, it would still be somewhat counterable for the Allies.

Also lowering its vet requirement wouldn't hurt because it can barely get past vet2-3 because it arrives so late.

What do you guys think?

The smoke might be good and the veterancy requirements reduction is definitely a good idea
4 Jul 2018, 10:52 AM
#4
avatar of Lago

Posts: 2371

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Jul 2018, 10:01 AMVipper
Damage output should become more consistent while less lethal. In other words reduce kill radius and scatter.

The far penetration of allied TDs could go down since the armor of the Panther has been reduced.


That's what happened to the Brummbar, making it a very consistent damage machine but less of a random wiper.

It'd be a good fix.

My pet KT change is moving Spearhead to Vet 0: it's an interesting mechanic that sees little use because it needs a Vet 3 KT.
4 Jul 2018, 12:15 PM
#5
avatar of swordfisch

Posts: 138

KT is one of the most consistent tanks in the game, park it around a VP somewhere and just watch it munch up inf while zooks and med tank rounds ping off. It's incredibly consistent at those two things so there's no issue here for me.

The changes I would like to see would be quicker vet, but as a counter balance if one of your trucks is destroyed you can't call it in. If you make a good push to destroy an flak truck on his cutoff I shouldn't have to cope with an Instant call in KT to give him a fightback.

The whole idea of setting up trucks on the map should be risk vs reward, KT should be a part of that.
A_E
4 Jul 2018, 14:28 PM
#6
avatar of A_E
Lead Caster Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2108 | Subs: 4

KT is one of the most consistent tanks in the game, park it around a VP somewhere and just watch it munch up inf while zooks and med tank rounds ping off. It's incredibly consistent at those two things so there's no issue here for me.

The changes I would like to see would be quicker vet, but as a counter balance if one of your trucks is destroyed you can't call it in. If you make a good push to destroy an flak truck on his cutoff I shouldn't have to cope with an Instant call in KT to give him a fightback.

The whole idea of setting up trucks on the map should be risk vs reward, KT should be a part of that.


Could you link your playercard please.
4 Jul 2018, 16:34 PM
#7
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 907

KT is one of the most consistent tanks in the game, park it around a VP somewhere and just watch it munch up inf while zooks and med tank rounds ping off. It's incredibly consistent at those two things so there's no issue here for me.

The changes I would like to see would be quicker vet, but as a counter balance if one of your trucks is destroyed you can't call it in. If you make a good push to destroy an flak truck on his cutoff I shouldn't have to cope with an Instant call in KT to give him a fightback.

The whole idea of setting up trucks on the map should be risk vs reward, KT should be a part of that.


Until an at gun or TD comes up, does some damage and a unit walks up (since it can't hit much anymore) gives it engine damage and then dies.

Simply it does not perform well for its cost, low speed and high vet requirements.
4 Jul 2018, 17:01 PM
#8
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3004

Guys please, the KT is one of the most consistent units ingame...... consistently trash.
4 Jul 2018, 17:53 PM
#9
avatar of Mcq_knight

Posts: 37

Once again KT gets unending love..... #MakeIS2GreatAgain

Compared to IS2, KT is all you could ever want for a megatank. At least most shots will hit and do something.... IS2 is a damn meme with a maybe 25-33% hit rate...

These both need to be given some love. Agree with lower OHK radius for less skatter.
4 Jul 2018, 19:25 PM
#10
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 907

Once again KT gets unending love..... #MakeIS2GreatAgain

Compared to IS2, KT is all you could ever want for a megatank. At least most shots will hit and do something.... IS2 is a damn meme with a maybe 25-33% hit rate...


Sure if you want to nerf it's speed, increase its cost to 270 fuel, and require all sy 4 tech buildings.
4 Jul 2018, 19:28 PM
#11
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1775 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Jul 2018, 10:01 AMVipper
Damage output should become more consistent while less lethal. In other words reduce kill radius and scatter.

The far penetration of allied TDs could go down since the armor of the Panther has been reduced.


This could work, but only if both your suggestions are implemented. Otherwise the KT would still become a 720mp 280fu piece of immobile junk as soon as a second TD arrives no matter how consistant its damage output is.
4 Jul 2018, 20:38 PM
#12
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13241 | Subs: 6



Sure if you want to nerf it's speed, increase its cost to 270 fuel, and require all sy 4 tech buildings.

Going to ignore KT having more HP and 50% better dmg?
4 Jul 2018, 20:59 PM
#13
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3576


Going to ignore KT having more HP and 50% better dmg?

the point

u




btw u forget the +5 range, what wrong kat ? u are missing ur shoots lately
4 Jul 2018, 21:17 PM
#14
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 421

Turret rotation speed could help. Usually if one tanks gets behind a kt, it is dead.
4 Jul 2018, 22:29 PM
#15
avatar of Mcq_knight

Posts: 37



Sure if you want to nerf it's speed, increase its cost to 270 fuel, and require all sy 4 tech buildings.


Lets not pretend they are even close right now. KT at least sees the light of day occasionally.

Blitz alone is far more vauable than any vet bonus IS2 gets, much less spearhead which is fantastic.

I would not at all mind 3! tiers built and a fuel increase, should it hit near peak KT lethality at SOME point.

5 Jul 2018, 02:42 AM
#16
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 907


Going to ignore KT having more HP and 50% better dmg?


Yes, so why are you expecting them to perform equally?
5 Jul 2018, 04:19 AM
#17
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 2877 | Subs: 1



Yes, so why are you expecting them to perform equally?

Both are underperforming due to being inconsistent heavy tanks with 375 armour. Tbh they are a pair of very similar tanks (pros and cons both ways) so ESPECIALLY with the inconsistent output from both of them its not out of the realm for them to go hand in hand
5 Jul 2018, 06:27 AM
#18
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 2556 | Subs: 1

We're back in the wet dream where KT dominates its intended counters?
5 Jul 2018, 06:47 AM
#19
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 262 | Subs: 1


Going to ignore KT having more HP and 50% better dmg?


Going to ignore KT having the worst turret rotation in the game and atrocious accel/decel stats?
5 Jul 2018, 06:53 AM
#20
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 262 | Subs: 1

KT is one of the most consistent tanks in the game, park it around a VP somewhere and just watch it munch up inf while zooks and med tank rounds ping off. It's incredibly consistent at those two things so there's no issue here for me.

The changes I would like to see would be quicker vet, but as a counter balance if one of your trucks is destroyed you can't call it in. If you make a good push to destroy an flak truck on his cutoff I shouldn't have to cope with an Instant call in KT to give him a fightback.

The whole idea of setting up trucks on the map should be risk vs reward, KT should be a part of that.



Having one of the worst scatter values in the game makes it statistically one of the least consistent.

Armour isn't even consistency. Armour is a static number, the targeting weapon is the one which we evaluate for consistency. A 200pen weapon gives great reliability across most armour ranges, whereas an 80pen weapon is horribly inconsistent at penetrating even mediums.
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