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Rebalancing Sniper Counter for Ostheer

6 Feb 2018, 15:38 PM
#21
avatar of Rantanplan

Posts: 39



Thing is: Team games are a very bad comparsion for balance related issues


Just an example. That was completely insane, all of it, this game... xd
6 Feb 2018, 15:38 PM
#22
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3652 | Subs: 1

What if.......
6 Feb 2018, 15:43 PM
#23
avatar of FichtenMoped
Editor in Chief Badge
Patrion 310

Posts: 4680 | Subs: 3



Just an example. That was completely insane, all of it, this game... xd


Yeah I know. Showcasing how badly broken something is can be achieved in teamgames pretty well

What if.......


6 Feb 2018, 16:19 PM
#24
avatar of Stark

Posts: 589 | Subs: 1

Bring back the old 221 with a munitions upgrade to 222.


It won't work. Better add 221 as a single unit in t1 - available after upgrading battle faze 1. Give it an ability with time suppressing after vet 1, maybe armor upgrade like m20 as well just to make it more usefull later in game.
Soviet has early scout car so give ostheer similar unit

Anyway, ostheer isn't in a such a bad spot to counter snipers. I think OKW has harder position. Kubel can be easily counter to scout car, volks have such shitty accuracy that usually flank doesn't even kill 1 sniper model. So basicly you have to count on leigs or p2 (which comes so late that soviets already has a wall of cons and guards just waiting you to dive).
6 Feb 2018, 16:38 PM
#25
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

Actually I think most players do not understand the real power of snipers. The real threat of snipers lies in their veterancy.

Why is it the case ? Because all units, as they move through veterancy status, gain numberous bonuses. On both sides. So in the end mostly the recieved accuracy bonuses on the one side are mitigated by increased accuracy of the opposing unit and vice versa.

But sniper as if gain RoF bonus as they vet without any counter-vet. Recieved accuracy bonuses are worthless against snipers, because they have 100% death-crit change. Also offensive bonuses against snipers are almost non-existant, because you will hardly ever use them, as your infantry cannot reach them in the lategame (unless your opponent is cocky).


So in the end the sniper will end up with 33-50% sheer DPS buff without any counterplay. And what is even worse, in the lategame vetted squads help even fresh snipers to vet like crazy, so these elite squads are digging their own grave against the snipers, because thanks to their accumulated veterancy they will be faster outscaled by superior sniper veterancy
6 Feb 2018, 16:51 PM
#26
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066



Thing is: Team games are a very bad comparsion for balance related issues


Strange. The entire last balance patch was just for team games lol. But I still get your point though.
6 Feb 2018, 17:44 PM
#29
avatar of YRon²y

Posts: 185

What if.......


we could remove you from the community and nobody would notice :foreveralone:



I found a sniper abuser


lol +1

6 Feb 2018, 18:12 PM
#30
avatar of zarok47

Posts: 570

What if.......


NO NO NO, snipers are fu- snipers are balanced and availble to all fac- no no, snipers are needed because else you can't counter *errrr* others snipers.
Yes, thats why you need them.

And it's not like snipers ignore stuff like veterancy, unit retention, RNG, positioning, flanking and cover right?
6 Feb 2018, 18:15 PM
#31
avatar of Array
Donator 11

Posts: 580

I think 222s already have +15% accuracy with its' MG against snipers.

The thing is, if it gets buffed the brit sniper will melt down insanely fast for example.

Making the unit more vulnerable in retreat would make other units too good against them.

Anyone got ideas to that which wouldn't actually effect the UKF sniper?



The last change to this was actually a shift from something like 1.5 x accuracy to 0.75 x. On the grounds that the coax mg was bugged and wasn’t even tracking targets before so now it was fixed it needed to be simultaneously nerfed. When moving it’s even less And I don’t think it has a bonus vs sniper. Generally the 222 is a fairly underwhelming unit so it could probably tolerate a buff. Your right to flag up unintended consequences like Brit sniper but the Brit sniper does have an anti vehicle shot!


I barely play Okw But doesn’t the flak truck crush sniper play?
6 Feb 2018, 19:24 PM
#32
avatar of Nosliw

Posts: 515

I'm not sure why no one else has said the most obvious solution: make the soviet sniper a 1 man squad like the rest of the snipers.

There's no reason that it should be 2 men; the argument that it's unique is weak, and it's more like a gimmick. If you simply make the sniper a clone of the WM sniper, then you don't have to worry about all this "give 222 a +15% accuracy modifier vs snipers" or anything. Plus, buffing 222 doesn't help against anything other than suiciding the 222 for snipers... MAYBE. Once the 222 hits the field in team games (I'm talking about 2v2), and especially when playing against 2x Soviets, the soviets will have a combination of, or all of, the following: conscripts with AT nades, mines planted, AT gun fielded, Penal with PTRS.

I've seen instances of games where good soviet players have 2 snipers in early game, and already have AT nades / AT gun / PTRS in time for fast 222.

I know this for sure. Just last game I played vs a really tip top abusing soviet team on Moscow outskirts. My teammate and I had BOTH fuels during the entire "early game" (first 5 minutes) until we both rushed for Flammenwerfer HTs. We both waited for the flame to finish, and rushed the double sniper at the exact same time. The snipers INSTANTLY retreated, and at the same time, 4 conscripts from both players Oorah'd and AT naded both our halftracks. My partners then died to an AT gun that was already waiting in the sniper's retreat path.

So please people, do not talk about "222 is the counter" when soviets can get every single tool to counter 222 even with 0 fuel income (they simply need 15 fuel for AT nades and their starting fuel to build AT guns or Penals).

So, let me stress again. The fix is not a 222 buff, it's a sniper nerf. Make it 1 man.
6 Feb 2018, 19:40 PM
#33
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 968 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Feb 2018, 19:24 PMNosliw
.


+1 The Sov sniper will likely never be balanced as a 2 man squad
6 Feb 2018, 21:24 PM
#34
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 7194 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Feb 2018, 19:24 PMNosliw
...


People would complain more about a 1 man 82HP SU sniper that is similar to OH one. Imagine having better RoF (even if it's worst than OH one), having proper cammo and been able to survive a direct shell to the face.
6 Feb 2018, 21:46 PM
#35
avatar of vasa1719

Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post6 Feb 2018, 19:24 PMNosliw

I know this for sure. Just last game I played vs a really tip top abusing soviet team on Moscow outskirts. My teammate and I had BOTH fuels during the entire "early game" (first 5 minutes) until we both rushed for Flammenwerfer HTs. We both waited for the flame to finish, and rushed the double sniper at the exact same time. The snipers INSTANTLY retreated, and at the same time, 4 conscripts from both players Oorah'd and AT naded both our halftracks. My partners then died to an AT gun that was already waiting in the sniper's retreat path.


Repley or not happen. Trust to words in our community, its like trust politics :snfPeter:
6 Feb 2018, 21:58 PM
#36
avatar of vasa1719

Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4

Permanently Banned
I give free l2p advise, dont try kill sniper, leave him alone without support, focus with flame HT at cons/penals/guards, he will be die later, coz soviet player will be focused at infatry.
Sniper play based on sniper and infatry meat shield. This strat have low temp, so both axis faction can ruch AA HT and flame HT with good timing. Problem will be later in mid game, when soviet will be have more infatry, sniper and maybe t-70/su-76/fast34 (but its bad things imo) or zis.
So you can counter or infatry or sniper. With Huuura price cnange its not EZ use ability every time and use AT nades, also its not problem to bait infatry at HT. Also, blobing are legal in game and sometimes its need to do, like situation with snipers, also teamplay (for what reason players play in teams if not for this ?)
Skill advice, use ostheer sniper (Devm showed it in few high skill games vs soviets), 1 model hit give you (if i am not mistake) vet 1, so you can use vet ability faster than soviet sniper make shoot answer.
Problem are not with sniper, problem are with support, that in mid game, all ifnatry units will be behind greens cover and cover sniper, so axis infatry will be always in bad position.
6 Feb 2018, 22:04 PM
#37
avatar of vasa1719

Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4

Permanently Banned
What if.......


So you will be have good chance to counter brits heavy infatry play:crazy:
6 Feb 2018, 22:19 PM
#38
avatar of 1337Cammy

Posts: 35 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Feb 2018, 18:15 PMArray



The last change to this was actually a shift from something like 1.5 x accuracy to 0.75 x. On the grounds that the coax mg was bugged and wasn’t even tracking targets before so now it was fixed it needed to be simultaneously nerfed. When moving it’s even less And I don’t think it has a bonus vs sniper. [...]


They changed the acc modifier of the heavy MG42 weapon team to 0.75 against snipers cause snipers don't prior the gunner anymore.

That doesn't affect coax MGs tho.
7 Feb 2018, 01:11 AM
#39
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 607



People would complain more about a 1 man 82HP SU sniper that is similar to OH one. Imagine having better RoF (even if it's worst than OH one), having proper cammo and been able to survive a direct shell to the face.


Not to mention the ability to double-tap.
7 Feb 2018, 03:26 AM
#40
avatar of LimaOscarMike

Posts: 440

what if upgrade flak will remain being 222 but upgrade armor (like M20) will have to stick with 221
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