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Eastern Front Armies Revamp

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20 Jun 2017, 20:48 PM
#861
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

Suggestion-

Fausts for Assault Grenadiers (with T1, like osttruppen)


TLDR
  • Assgrens are counterable by infantry play and are balanced in that regard with their cost and timing
  • Additional weakness in lack of faust exposes assgren play to cheese in the early game and heavily disincentivizes them in the lategame (amongst other things)
  • Giving them fausts would not significantly affect matchups to the point where assgren spam / cheese play becomes a problem [may need observation vs brits] and would make for more variety ingame



Single Shreck for Panzergrens

  • GCS and 1v1 gameplay clearly shows the propensity for wehrmacht T1 units over pgrens in the anti-inf role. This is not necessarily due to T1 being overboard in strength, but rather due to the lack of niche for panzergrens in the wehr anti-inf roster.
  • Grenadiers are almost always preferable [even when both T1 and T2 are present], with fausts, much, much lower initial cost, weapon upgrades (particularly G43) that allow the unit to punch above its reinforce cost]
  • Snipers bleed no manpower and due to how important / impactful this unit is in the USF/UKF matchup and against soviet sniper, panzergrens really can't compete
  • Single schreck would give the unit a niche in T2 as a 'safe' multirole purchase.
  • Pgren blob / spam would neither be efficient nor uncounterable, given their high upfront cost, not-overly strong anti-inf performance, nerfed bundle nade and weakness of single shreck in coh2 due to vehicle mechanics with pushing and general high lethality[see current sturmpios for reference]. As such, Wehrmacht T1 + pak or stug would still be the more cost-efficient tier for specialized units, but panzergrens would offer a flexible alternative in a faction of specialists


Other suggestions (without reasoning, maybe later)
0CP Mortar Halftrack
Riegel mines able to be laid by pioneers and 222s


Ass grens with Faust would be an upgrade over grens and a down grade over LMG grens. IMO they just need better anti-infantry scaling:like a 60 munitions armor upgrade or something.

PzGrens should have the option to upgrade to double LMG34 (nonelite version) at 120 munitions. Removing double Shrek is a nerf to Ost.


20 Jun 2017, 21:06 PM
#862
avatar of voltardark

Posts: 967

One way to solve the balance problem is to add more abilities.

when you have more options it become less obvious to find cookie the cutter build and those one don't last long because someone will device another to counter the previous one.

When you remove abilities, the best ideas become the way to go for everybody, the game then become stall and redundant. Imagination lead to fun !!!

To me, Company online was very imbalance but also very fun to play, even more then COH2.

To me it's better to have more abilities then less.

It's why i don't play chess anymore...

Give more abilities and units to every factions so we may find our own solutions to the different challenges our opponents device.


I would give all the abilities to all factions, but each faction would have a field where they the best keeping asymmetric warfare alive.

But no ability should be so dominant that it the only way to go. (meaning more variety and flexibility but less raw power)

:)
21 Jun 2017, 00:50 AM
#863
avatar of PanzerGeneralForever

Posts: 1072

snip

It's why i don't play chess anymore...


:)

Thats why you add abilities in chess to make it more fun. I did that with a friend by allowing the King to equip items that gave him special abilities. We had games that lasted 4 hrs long... So fun :D

I agree. More abilities. Not necessarily big ones though. That makes it hard to balance imo..
21 Jun 2017, 05:09 AM
#864
avatar of Strummingbird
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 952


Ass grens with Faust would be an upgrade over grens and a down grade over LMG grens. IMO they just need better anti-infantry scaling:like a 60 munitions armor upgrade or something.


With a worse grenade, higher upfront cost, and performance that isn't particularly good anyway, I think they'd be pretty reasonably costed with faust (or as elchino said, a weaker snare especially since they have sprint)


Removing double Shrek is a nerf to Ost.


I didn't suggest removing double schrecks, just giving the option for single purchase.
21 Jun 2017, 08:32 AM
#865
avatar of vuko_zrno
Patrion 26

Posts: 64

QOL suggestion: Is it possible to show the production status of the USF officers in the upper right corner of the screen?
21 Jun 2017, 09:53 AM
#866
21 Jun 2017, 10:56 AM
#867
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Jun 2017, 09:53 AMnigo
@mirage and smith,

FYI:

https://www.reddit.com/r/CompanyOfHeroes/comments/6ighwx/fyi_the_ardennes_assault_campaign_is_pretty/?utm_content=comments&utm_medium=hot&utm_source=reddit&utm_name=CompanyOfHeroes


I know. This is not something we can fix from our side, though.

Relic has found that something unrelated to the patch broke, which requires additional resources to fix.

Thx for bringing that up though.
21 Jun 2017, 11:30 AM
#868
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1

According to the last patch notes this gets applied to Cons.

Initial improvements (DPS)
Accuracy changed from 0.541/0.495/0.334 to 0.56805/0.495/0.4175
Vet3 RA bonus reduced from 0.6 to 0.65
Accuracy bonus added 1.15 with veterancy

- Damage from 16 to 10


Doesn´t that nerf cons hard? Slight acc buff but damage nerfed hard????

21 Jun 2017, 12:03 PM
#869
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

According to the last patch notes this gets applied to Cons.



Doesn´t that nerf cons hard? Slight acc buff but damage nerfed hard????


The deliver damage more consistent and gain more accuracy with veterancy. At vet 2 a conscript probably has more DPS in mod than in live.
21 Jun 2017, 12:11 PM
#870
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

According to the last patch notes this gets applied to Cons.



Doesn´t that nerf cons hard? Slight acc buff but damage nerfed hard????



The notes are incorrect. Accuracy is still (to offset damage change):
- Accuracy from 0.541/0.495/0.334 to 0.9086803/0.7918258/0.6678531
21 Jun 2017, 12:13 PM
#871
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1



The notes are incorrect. Accuracy is still (to offset damage change):
- Accuracy from 0.541/0.495/0.334 to 0.9086803/0.7918258/0.6678531


Oh ok. That makes sense. Thanks
21 Jun 2017, 12:43 PM
#872
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1

My impressions from testing some of the changes playing against AI:

Maxim still needs supression buff badly. It still takes way too long to supress anything. You can make a coffee and after that take a nap and when you wake up it still wont have pinned a squad sitting infront of it. Then you can take a shower using up all the water in your continent and come back to maybe find the squad pinned. I dont see why Ost gets a MG42 that surpresses and pins quickly with a bigger arc and available at T0 and Soviets get this piece of trash.

Cons need more buffs.

Call-In penalites are good.

Shocks should get a cost decrease to maybe 350...390 is just insanity for what you get.

JB.
21 Jun 2017, 12:53 PM
#874
avatar of JB.

Posts: 45



Here's an idea. You could swap the positions and Hotkeys for the Brumbar, Werfer and Panther so the line up from left to right would be this:

Werfer (Q) --- Brumbar (W) --- Panther (E)

This way it would be consistent across factions.
21 Jun 2017, 13:01 PM
#875
avatar of Nano

Posts: 212

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Jun 2017, 12:53 PMJB.


Here's an idea. You could swap the positions and Hotkeys for the Brumbar, Werfer and Panther so the line up from left to right would be this:

Werfer (Q) --- Brumbar (W) --- Panther (E)

This way it would be consistent across factions.


Also on this topic, for the love of god make the Faust on Volk the same hot key as the snare on PanzFus.

That tricks me every time!
21 Jun 2017, 13:06 PM
#876
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

...
Cons need more buffs.


Cons actually are OP in mod. They do not need to get better especially since Penal remain so strong.
21 Jun 2017, 14:15 PM
#877
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Jun 2017, 13:06 PMVipper

Cons actually are OP in mod. They do not need to get better especially since Penal remain so strong.


How are they OP? PPSH doctrines are meh...PTRS for cons is limited to one one-dimensional doctrine.

So you still end up with Cons that are next to useless against upgraded Volks and Grens.

Fight some Vet 3 Grens with MG42/G43 upgrade or Vet5 STG Volks with Cons and see how well that goes.
21 Jun 2017, 14:44 PM
#878
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



How are they OP? PPSH doctrines are meh...PTRS for cons is limited to one one-dimensional doctrine.

So you still end up with Cons that are next to useless against upgraded Volks and Grens.

Fight some Vet 3 Grens with MG42/G43 upgrade or Vet5 STG Volks with Cons and see how well that goes.

An Lmg grenadier is T1 unit with BP 2 research and 60 Mu upgrade, it should beat a T0 unit.

An STG Volk is 250 MP unit with 2 set truck investment and 60 Mu upgrade, it should beat a T0 unit.

Conscript should simply be redesign either an aggressive unit with ourah and good at mid to close (no sandbags) or as defensive unit good far when in cover (with sandbags but no ourah maybe some bonuses when in cover).

Else leave the unit as (a bit less animation for molotovs) a mediocre in all roles.
21 Jun 2017, 15:03 PM
#879
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Jun 2017, 14:44 PMVipper

An Lmg grenadier is T1 unit with BP 2 research and 60 Mu upgrade, it should beat a T0 unit.

An STG Volk is 250 MP unit with 2 set truck investment and 60 Mu upgrade, it should beat a T0 unit.

Conscript should simply be redesign either an aggressive unit with ourah and good at mid to close (no sandbags) or as defensive unit good far when in cover (with sandbags but no ourah maybe some bonuses when in cover).

Else leave the unit as (a bit less animation for molotovs) a mediocre in all roles.


The unit should have some role and use. Right now Conscripts are just bleeding your MP and loosing every single mid- or late-game engagement unless they outnumber their opponents 3:1. I do agree that STG Volks and LMG Grens should beat them overall but just leaving Cons as they are is surely no option right? Maybe make the PPSH upgrade non-doctrinal and replace the doctrinal PPSH with something better? Like the Guards LMGs?


21 Jun 2017, 15:57 PM
#880
avatar of dOPEnEWhAIRCUT

Posts: 239

On what basis will feedback be considered on all this?
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