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16 May 2017, 06:38 AM
#541
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3596 | Subs: 1



Try Wc51 + Rifle :)


Are you kidding? I have been using the WC51 many many times on every modes from 1vs1 to 4vs4 and won many early game because it, I promoted it during months last year.
The reality is today a WC51 can´t do shit vs x2 or x3 kubels push with a SP in the middle. It is simple mathematic.
1SP + 3xkubel >>> 1xRE + 1xWC51 + 1xRM, even if you put your RE in the dodge to maximize your dps vs the kubel.
They just need to focus fire the WC51 from long range.
16 May 2017, 07:01 AM
#542
avatar of TickTack

Posts: 578



+1.

Many of us have gotten hoarse trying to argue this point for the last couple years.

Get real! Experience shows relic makes minor, incremental changes only.
16 May 2017, 07:15 AM
#543
avatar of GhostTX

Posts: 315



Try Wc51 + Rifle :)

Ugh...I just hate that that commander has such weak call-ins after that.

And to hinge all of USF vs OKW on ONE commander is crap, too.
16 May 2017, 08:42 AM
#544
avatar of ISuckAtVideoGames

Posts: 42

While I might agree that Stuka Dive Bomb might need some tweaks (I would suggest increasing the muni cost)

Nerfing Ele is downwright insane.

Shit, it costs an arm and leg to deploy, and even a single tank flank can mean a death to it. I love how, as always, everyone totally seem forget about the sorry state of OST T4 teching cost and how shitty benefits of it are, since Panther is still a joke TD compared to its equivalents.

You nerf Ele, you nerf stug, and you leave panther as a meme tank behind the t4 paywall which is usually never even picked, because wehr is fighting tooth and nail in t3 to stop its VP bleed. What kind of "endgame" for wehr are you talking about? Underperforming doctrinal Tiger? lmao.

16 May 2017, 13:12 PM
#545
avatar of skyshark

Posts: 239

Look, you know, everybody knows the Jagdtiger is a big problem. Everybody here knows. They gave it too much range and they make it so there's nothing to counter it. Nothing. And it's a terrible design. It's just terrible. But I think the Elefant - I think it's fine. It's got no range. None. If there's a problem there - and I'm not saying there is a problem just that there might be a problem - it's the spotting scopes. But that's not the range. That's another problem. And I think we can all say that's the bigger problem, really. Much, much bigger. Maybe the biggest problem.

And now, you know, they're telling us they're going to make howitzers seventy fuel and they're going to nerf the Stuka bomb and they're going to make so it's not one-hitting howitzers. But they're doing nothing about the Il-2 Precision Strike. Just nothing. I think - I think we all know - that the Stuka's broken. It's so broken. But if they nerf the Stuka they have to nerf the Precision Strike too. And I can - we can all - agree with that. But right now that's not what they're telling us. They're telling us they're not doing that. I'm saying - this is - it's dumb. I mean, this is just the dumbest decision here. I dunno what they're even thinking. But it's dumb.

And, I mean, we're not even getting to the big stuff yet. It's unbelievable. These guys - they still have Panzerfusiliers as six population. Everybody knows they should be seven. Everybody. And I tell you, that's like, a one minute fix. One number. Done. But they're telling us it can't be done and it's not the focus and that there are are bigger problems when everybody knows that's the biggest problem. And let me tell you - I would get it done. I would get it done so fast. I would make sure that it gets done. They would be seven population. Seven. Like they're supposed to be. Seven.

And also StuGs are still 560 health. Why? Nobody knows. Nobody. Let me tell you - this is just making us all look so bad. They think we are so stupid and they can raise the population to ten and nerf TWP and still let this thing get three-hitted by a Jackson or a Firefly. They think we're that stupid. But we're not. We're not going to be stupid. We're going to raise the health to 640, which - by the way - which was what it was always supposed to be, and we're going to make sure we never look so stupid again. That's what we're going to do. And we're going to get it done right and it's going to be great.


DJT's speechwriter. Well done, Sir.

I'm against the TD changes. There's gotta be some realism left. A JT should absolutely out range and out gun all vehicles. It's use is limited to open and narrow maps anyway.

Can someone explain why a command panther shouldn't buff teammates? I kinda thought that was most of the benefit in team games...
16 May 2017, 15:03 PM
#546
avatar of Array
Donator 11

Posts: 609



Can someone explain why a command panther shouldn't buff teammates? I kinda thought that was most of the benefit in team games...


Aura buffs are problematic in general as they can break many core mechanics - hard enough to figure out/moderate how they may change balance in one faction - apply the buffs to a range of units from another faction and its even worse. Besides which, that Panther is not part of the command structure of the team mates company!
16 May 2017, 15:08 PM
#547
avatar of nigo
Senior Editor Badge

Posts: 2236 | Subs: 15

@mr.smith,


My best experiences in 4vs4 occur in "General mud" map. That's because wide, not the mud.
16 May 2017, 15:11 PM
#548
avatar of Array
Donator 11

Posts: 609

While I might agree that Stuka Dive Bomb might need some tweaks (I would suggest increasing the muni cost)

Nerfing Ele is downwright insane.

Shit, it costs an arm and leg to deploy, and even a single tank flank can mean a death to it. I love how, as always, everyone totally seem forget about the sorry state of OST T4 teching cost and how shitty benefits of it are, since Panther is still a joke TD compared to its equivalents.

You nerf Ele, you nerf stug, and you leave panther as a meme tank behind the t4 paywall which is usually never even picked, because wehr is fighting tooth and nail in t3 to stop its VP bleed. What kind of "endgame" for wehr are you talking about? Underperforming doctrinal Tiger? lmao.




None of this is in a vacumn - comets / cromwells are nerfed, mod team would like to nerf firefly. It's about making the game fun and targeting outlying units. I suspect that in nearly every occasion the jagd and elephant trade for more than their cost in games. A well designed unit should only do this consistently when used with skill or against poor players. The Risk of flanking it is generally high and a failed flank is often gg rather than just a set-back.

I think ost panther should get a very modest bit of love but in general other stuff needs to come down to the strength of ost panther / panzer 4 so you have units that work well only when combined with other units and controlled with skill
16 May 2017, 16:21 PM
#549
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742


Get real! Experience shows relic makes minor, incremental changes only.


Except when they don't and say, redesign OKW like they have in the past. Or redesign soviet tech tiers.

Those are rather ancient history though now I'll admit.
16 May 2017, 23:00 PM
#550
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053



DJT's speechwriter. Well done, Sir.

I'm against the TD changes. There's gotta be some realism left. A JT should absolutely out range and out gun all vehicles. It's use is limited to open and narrow maps anyway.

Can someone explain why a command panther shouldn't buff teammates? I kinda thought that was most of the benefit in team games...

Realism is a shoddy argument in a WW2 axis vs. allies asymmetrical game. Because then usf should have literally like a 4:1 ratio of rifles to grens and complete air superiority. Also Russia liberating French countrysides and usf fighting in Stalingrad is a bit odd. How does on counte a JT controlled by a person with more brain capacity than a monkey in teamgames? Allies don't have any viable equivalents or even close contenders and the counterplay to a massive combined arms assault is literally right clicking behind the JT. It's also got great armor and health combined with insane range which makes the speed of allied tanks irrelevant. As allies you literally just have to play around it and hope it doesn't do too much damage. That's just stupid. Shocks are limited to urban maps, can they take 1% damage from all sources? Why not if JT is balanced due to no viability on like 3 team game maps.
17 May 2017, 02:26 AM
#551
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2



Except when they don't and say, redesign OKW like they have in the past. Or redesign soviet tech tiers.

Those are rather ancient history though now I'll admit.


TBH, besides changes implemented based on community changes so we could kinda not blame them for those, the guy you are quoting couldn't be more far away of reality. It's not hyperbole if you can actually go to the officials forums and open up the changelog (which doesn't account for the HUGE AMOUNT OF NINJA changes implemented on each patch).

Baby steps changes are 5-10% top. Relics goes full 50%-100% and they even managed to do a full 400% buff (see AoE of Stuka). TBH, i can't really blame them, when they had little to no resources to do them + knowingly that it would take another 3+ months before the next patch could be delivered.

17 May 2017, 14:07 PM
#552
avatar of ruzen
Patrion 15

Posts: 243

Here, how to make demos less annoying.
-There has to be a friendly unit within demo range (large sized) to click blast.
-Add 1.5-2 second delay to trigger.
-Increase the construction time.
DONE
17 May 2017, 15:12 PM
#553
avatar of TickTack

Posts: 578



TBH, besides changes implemented based on community changes so we could kinda not blame them for those, the guy you are quoting couldn't be more far away of reality. It's not hyperbole if you can actually go to the officials forums and open up the changelog (which doesn't account for the HUGE AMOUNT OF NINJA changes implemented on each patch).

Baby steps changes are 5-10% top. Relics goes full 50%-100% and they even managed to do a full 400% buff (see AoE of Stuka). TBH, i can't really blame them, when they had little to no resources to do them + knowingly that it would take another 3+ months before the next patch could be delivered.


Giving 1 unit +400% buff is still a minor change.

Re-working inter-faction balance per unit is an example of a large change.

The former is done on a micro level, the latter on a macro level. Hence the use of words like 'small' and 'large'.
17 May 2017, 16:38 PM
#554
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2


Giving 1 unit +400% buff is still a minor change.

Re-working inter-faction balance per unit is an example of a large change.

The former is done on a micro level, the latter on a macro level. Hence the use of words like 'small' and 'large'.


Except when those changes done at what you call "micro" level affect the macro level as meta defining changes.
Example: buffing by 100% the damage of PW and Katyushas. Or the madness of PIO spam on that March update.

I invite you to see what other companies and games call "incremental" small changes and compared it to what Relic's changelog look like.
18 May 2017, 14:21 PM
#555
avatar of Dyzfunction

Posts: 73

So the gist of this is that axis should not be able to take out allied arty, but UKF can have airburst shells that not only kill LeFH crews but also destroy the gun.


The mod team's bias is showing.
18 May 2017, 14:23 PM
#556
avatar of Dyzfunction

Posts: 73

jump backJump back to quoted post17 May 2017, 14:07 PMruzen
Here, how to make demos less annoying.
-There has to be a friendly unit within demo range (large sized) to click blast.
-Add 1.5-2 second delay to trigger.
-Increase the construction time.
DONE


And when your priest comes over to one and says "WOLOLOOOO" it becomes your bomb!
18 May 2017, 15:25 PM
#557
avatar of voltardark

Posts: 967

All factions should have the same access to the same strength demo charges.
Why: those are very basic tools that were and are still in used by all armies;

- Mines or grenades should not detonates it.(manual only);
- Invisible till seen by a pio with removal tools;
- Can't be detonate will pio with rem. tools in the range of the blast, removing it or not;
- Arty can sweep it on ground or if in building by destroying this one, the demo should not explode.

Lower the cost of the removal tools for all. No weapon upgrade with removing tools. It's one or the other.

60 munitions is enough for something that can be countered.
18 May 2017, 15:48 PM
#558
avatar of Array
Donator 11

Posts: 609



60 munitions is enough for something that can be countered.


No other ~60 muni abilities (save satchel which you can predict and has a timer) can kill or damage so much stuff. I think Demos should only be built on structures or green cover - having random 'super mines' be anywhere (like main roads/pathways) is a bit rubbish especially considering that other mines were nerfed to kill max 2 models. Tellers should also perhaps leave light vehicles like stuart, AEC, halftrack (but not M3) with a sliver of health.

Its boring having to have a sweeper everywhere or pay such a heavy price for one small mistake although making them not explode when sweepers were near would be an improvement as its easy to react too slow when spotted
18 May 2017, 16:05 PM
#559
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

I wouldnt mind seeing the demo require an engie squad to detonate, but thats it, making it more predictable makes it more counterable and there is no reason you shouldnt be able to punish poor play with it. I think everyome agrees the cheese behind it is cap point cheese, there is an ability specifically for that and it doesnt work half as well meaning there is something wrong
18 May 2017, 17:07 PM
#560
avatar of voltardark

Posts: 967

Putting demo (with modifs as in above post) for 60 munitions is a choice, you could have use it for weapon upgrades that would have last you for a long time and you couldn't lost it to sweepers (a lost investment).

See my post above.
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