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Command Panther teamgame balance

26 Feb 2017, 18:32 PM
#61
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

...


Nice finds. So basically in some aspects it is an Ostheer and OKW panther on steroids whilst being the same as an Ostheer panther in other respects?

This info also shows how pathetic the Ostheer Panther is.
26 Feb 2017, 19:57 PM
#62
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

The FlakHQ Panther is a roided out Ostheer Panther.

The Command Panther is pretty much an Ostheer Panther with one of the most invaluably powerful auras in the game, and doesn't require a FlakHQ. The aura is incredibly useful for team games, and synergizes with the KT very well, which is also much more prevalent in team games.
26 Feb 2017, 21:54 PM
#63
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1

This thread is losing its way. It was also not very well titled and actually should be titled: "Command Panther. Is it over performing?"

The CmdP should not have the bonuses it does and needs a slight nerf. The idea that if it doesn't get vet 5 all the time makes it fine, has been floated here before. However, the CmdP is designed to win you the game at vet 3. Once there the buffs it gives out are so dramatic that the Allied team has to dive immediately to stop it. If they don't they will no longer be able to even use their TD's to deal with P4's.

The mark target it brings to the table is stupid. It is even harder to notice than the Soviet, does more (even when it improves performance against usually lower health tanks) and is dirt cheap. This also saves a commander slot and in a commander with 60 munition arty flares already.

The CmdP should come just 1 or 2 cp's later. The mark target ability should be removed or reworked, and its veterancy should either be changed to the panthers and offer a single level of buff (aka the cmd P4) or it should be seriously modified and only help your own units. This unit in team games with a Tiger Ace is stupid.



Please don't attack other members of the community for their opinion. This is especially true when you are summarizing their post without any context and then telling us what they may have said.
27 Feb 2017, 00:36 AM
#65
avatar of zerocoh

Posts: 930

command panther is annoying, but I don't think is THAT broken, just the combination of mark vehicle + blitz + flares + aura that makes it REALLY good.

the mark ability really needs a nerf, the thing doesn't even have a delay unlike the soviet ability that have like a 3 seconds delay to activate it.
27 Feb 2017, 01:48 AM
#66
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

Hey if the CP's main gun didn't benefit from the Mark ability, that might suffice.
27 Feb 2017, 03:53 AM
#67
avatar of Intelligence209

Posts: 1124

This thread is losing its way. It was also not very well titled and actually should be titled: "Command Panther. Is it over performing?"

The CmdP should not have the bonuses it does and needs a slight nerf. The idea that if it doesn't get vet 5 all the time makes it fine, has been floated here before. However, the CmdP is designed to win you the game at vet 3. Once there the buffs it gives out are so dramatic that the Allied team has to dive immediately to stop it. If they don't they will no longer be able to even use their TD's to deal with P4's.

The mark target it brings to the table is stupid. It is even harder to notice than the Soviet, does more (even when it improves performance against usually lower health tanks) and is dirt cheap. This also saves a commander slot and in a commander with 60 munition arty flares already.

The CmdP should come just 1 or 2 cp's later. The mark target ability should be removed or reworked, and its veterancy should either be changed to the panthers and offer a single level of buff (aka the cmd P4) or it should be seriously modified and only help your own units. This unit in team games with a Tiger Ace is stupid.



Please don't attack other members of the community for their opinion. This is especially true when you are summarizing their post without any context and then telling us what they may have said.


I completely disagree with everything you said here, I want you to know that.
27 Feb 2017, 05:50 AM
#68
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7


Players, don't listen to a guy that has 0 plays as OKW, has 10 times more games as Allies and is called "NerfGerms" in Steam :rolleyes:
https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198096202048


Do you think that somebody here takes aaa seriosly after everything ? ;)


Command panther surely is OP in 1v1 enviroment so he will need to get nerfed once allied mediums and comet are standardised, because right now USA/UKF either have 2 AT guns at 10CP or bye bye sherman/crowmell.
27 Feb 2017, 07:12 AM
#69
avatar of Highfiveeeee

Posts: 1740


Command panther surely is OP in 1v1 enviroment so he will need to get nerfed once allied mediums and comet are standardised, because right now USA/UKF either have 2 AT guns at 10CP or bye bye sherman/crowmell.


Or, what is probably more often the case, they have their 6-8 inf units with Bazookas, where the command Panther would be useless.
That's why I think the CPanther is even worse in 1v1 right now as Axis does not struggle to fight tanks but clearly against inf masses. So usually as OKW I would prefer an Ostwind + Jagdpanzer IV over an CPanther in the current meta.

27 Feb 2017, 07:36 AM
#70
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4



Or, what is probably more often the case, they have their 6-8 inf units with Bazookas, where the command Panther would be useless.
That's why I think the CPanther is even worse in 1v1 right now as Axis does not struggle to fight tanks but clearly against inf masses. So usually as OKW I would prefer an Ostwind + Jagdpanzer IV over an CPanther in the current meta.



If your opponet has 6-8 squads of infantry all with zooks your vetted volks and Obers should steamroll. No way a vet 3 rifle with double zooks can outtrade a vet 4-5 volks with StGs or vet 2 Obers with MG34.
27 Feb 2017, 11:14 AM
#71
avatar of Intelligence209

Posts: 1124

So what I'm seeing here, is people think CP is OP because the allies HAVE TO REACT to it, that its OP because it's an actual threat that could possibly come first. Someone tell me please how the CP performs against infantry? How the CP performs against blobbs that you often see?

So what having 2 AT guns by 10cp is a bad thing? Last time I checked OH been having a need of an AT gun within 7 min for well over a year now.

This game has been about the axis player reacting off the allied strat.

As I stated in another post

Command panther has a moving accuracy penalty
Atrocious reload time
Extremely poor performance in the AI department
The aura is not at all OP or even close to being a game changer.


27 Feb 2017, 12:43 PM
#72
avatar of SUCKmyCLOCK

Posts: 207

So what I'm seeing here, is people think CP is OP because the allies HAVE TO REACT to it, that its OP because it's an actual threat that could possibly come first. Someone tell me please how the CP performs against infantry? How the CP performs against blobbs that you often see?

So what having 2 AT guns by 10cp is a bad thing? Last time I checked OH been having a need of an AT gun within 7 min for well over a year now.

This game has been about the axis player reacting off the allied strat.

As I stated in another post

Command panther has a moving accuracy penalty
Atrocious reload time
Extremely poor performance in the AI department
The aura is not at all OP or even close to being a game changer.




Cannot agree more, the CP imo is far from OP. Its cost is astronomical but somewhat fair considering it is a call in. Getting one to Vet 4/5 is like trying to catch a unicorn, and its vet bonuses reflect accomplishing this feat.
27 Feb 2017, 13:18 PM
#73
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243

the buff from CP is low comparded to the tank commander from brits....for only 25ammo (lol)

when will this cheap thing fixed? even a little mg from german tanks cost more...but the tankcommander upgrade the super brit tanks to superduber tanks
27 Feb 2017, 13:22 PM
#74
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Command Panther as a unit is fine. It get's the benefit of been a call in (no tech required), so it's a panic tank in case you lose your T4 or you don't plan on getting it.

Second, and no one mention it, is that it can spot for itself. It doesn't benefit from it's own aura but it has base 55 sight range (+20sight).

Finally, the only OP thing is mark vehicle. 50% damage for 35 muni. You don't get the unit for it's aura, you get it so you can 2 shot Jackson or combo it with your teammates AT.

It's the ultimate wombo enabler (get a JPIV and play with Elite Armor heatshells). For fun: PV with mark vehicle and JPIV with heatshells (this is the hard part) which has to survive till vet5. At that point it will 1 shot an Easy 8 and 2 shot an IS2.

Numbers: base damage is 160. Vet5 JPIV deals 400dmg from cammo. It won't miss nor fail to penetrate with 150% bonus to both (this is also the bonus damage). When you combo it with heat, it's +30% pen/dmg. So it goes to 520 (mediums HP is 640). With mark vehicle it goes to 780 (E8 has 720HP, T3485 or Pershing has 800HP). 2nd shot would deal 312dmg. Sum it up: 780 + 312 = 1092
27 Feb 2017, 13:26 PM
#75
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7



Or, what is probably more often the case, they have their 6-8 inf units with Bazookas, where the command Panther would be useless.
That's why I think the CPanther is even worse in 1v1 right now as Axis does not struggle to fight tanks but clearly against inf masses. So usually as OKW I would prefer an Ostwind + Jagdpanzer IV over an CPanther in the current meta.



None high level USa player will amass bazookas on riflemen squads and have no mp to get echelons for zooks while mainintaning 4 rifles, officers and bar upgrades for them munnition vise.

If he went bazooka blobs, then outspam him with good infantry (stg volks) and use panther behind, shoting at sherman while volks keep rifles at bay.
27 Feb 2017, 13:28 PM
#76
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243

Command Panther as a unit is fine. It get's the benefit of been a call in (no tech required), so it's a panic tank in case you lose your T4 or you don't plan on getting it.

Second, and no one mention it, is that it can spot for itself. It doesn't benefit from it's own aura but it has base 55 sight range (+20sight).

Finally, the only OP thing is mark vehicle. 50% damage for 35 muni. You don't get the unit for it's aura, you get it so you can 2 shot Jackson or combo it with your teammates AT.

It's the ultimate wombo enabler (get a JPIV and play with Elite Armor heatshells). For fun: PV with mark vehicle and JPIV with heatshells (this is the hard part) which has to survive till vet5. At that point it will 1 shot an Easy 8 and 2 shot an IS2.

Numbers: base damage is 160. Vet5 JPIV deals 400dmg from cammo. It won't miss nor fail to penetrate with 150% bonus to both (this is also the bonus damage). When you combo it with heat, it's +30% pen/dmg. So it goes to 520 (mediums HP is 640). With mark vehicle it goes to 780 (E8 has 720HP, T3485 or Pershing has 800HP). 2nd shot would deal 312dmg. Sum it up: 780 + 312 = 1092


i seen sovjet call ins which can destroy a 80% tiger with the anti tank bomb drop....or detroy a 90% hp schwerer...


or seen brits armada which destroy a full army / base
27 Feb 2017, 13:31 PM
#77
avatar of Intelligence209

Posts: 1124

Command Panther as a unit is fine. It get's the benefit of been a call in (no tech required), so it's a panic tank in case you lose your T4 or you don't plan on getting it.

Second, and no one mention it, is that it can spot for itself. It doesn't benefit from it's own aura but it has base 55 sight range (+20sight).

Finally, the only OP thing is mark vehicle. 50% damage for 35 muni. You don't get the unit for it's aura, you get it so you can 2 shot Jackson or combo it with your teammates AT.

It's the ultimate wombo enabler (get a JPIV and play with Elite Armor heatshells). For fun: PV with mark vehicle and JPIV with heatshells (this is the hard part) which has to survive till vet5. At that point it will 1 shot an Easy 8 and 2 shot an IS2.

Numbers: base damage is 160. Vet5 JPIV deals 400dmg from cammo. It won't miss nor fail to penetrate with 150% bonus to both (this is also the bonus damage). When you combo it with heat, it's +30% pen/dmg. So it goes to 520 (mediums HP is 640). With mark vehicle it goes to 780 (E8 has 720HP, T3485 or Pershing has 800HP). 2nd shot would deal 312dmg. Sum it up: 780 + 312 = 1092



Okay so your saying the CP ability is OP because a vet 5 JPIV with heat shells.

Well my SUV is a gas guzzler but the sky is blue outside.. see I can do it too...
27 Feb 2017, 13:35 PM
#78
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2


Okay so your saying the CP ability is OP because a vet 5 JPIV with heat shells.


Nah, that's just a fun wombo.

It's OP cause it's 50% damage increase for 35muni. Once most OP/braindead shit in the game get's nerf (once WBP hits, Comet, crushwell, arty cover among other things) i don't see why mark vehicle shouldn't be tone down to 35% (same as soviet mark vehicle) or the cost increased.
27 Feb 2017, 13:38 PM
#79
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243



Nah, that's just a fun wombo.

It's OP cause it's 50% damage increase for 35muni. Once most OP/braindead shit in the game get's nerf (once WBP hits, Comet, crushwell, arty cover among other things) i don't see why mark vehicle shouldn't be tone down to 35% (same as soviet mark vehicle) or the cost increased.


hmm...let´s think about two Fireflys with tulips...
27 Feb 2017, 13:39 PM
#80
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

Command tank aura gives the following bonuses:

Vet0 +20 sight range, +10% speed,+10% ac/de-celeration
Vet2: +20% accuracy
Vet3: -20% reload
Vet4: +5 range
Vet5: Infantry affected too

Range increase on vehicles can break tank engagements, but it's, eh, kinda fair, if you're the only one benefiting from them. However, range increase on a stug-army is lol.

Sight bonuses on your own vehicles is also more than fair. As OKW, and given CP price you can't have a vehicle horde. However, CP aura + spotting scopes is lol.

Range and speed increase on infantry, on such a massive radius means that infantry combat becomes completely broken.

Simple no-brainer fixes:
- Vet5 only awards accuracy/reload bonuses to nearby infantry on a smaller, normal, radius (like other infantry-affecting auras; you're already getting the best tank-affecting auras)
- Sight/Range bonuses no longer affect teammates
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