Relic Winter Balance Preview v1.4 Update

Pios were the butt of the fighting force for some time. Both engies and RE can garrison a critical building or get behind cover and postpone the advance of enemy force for some time, or at least, draw some blood from the distance with favourable garrison or terrain. Pios can't do it (thats why they are buffed).

I don't get that. You can't say that building a structure for getting your basic pool of units for one faction is making them lose map control that results in unfair advantage, simultaneously claiming that it is a basic design for the other.

Yes echelons or enginners can cover one house and its indeed good thing to have but enginners can almost always defeat engineers or echelons in the open thust forcing them to retreat and capping that part of map.

Ostheer is already building mg42 while your poineers are building tier1. You can start mustering first gren even before your mg 42 is finished. Also tier1 is much faster build than soviet tier1.
Ostheer only sacrifice some engineer seconds to build tier1 instaed of capping but Soviets are stuck 30 seconds without doing nothing. You don´t want to go one conscript squad with tier1 opening because then you will lack resources to get penals/m3.

Do you see the difference now ?

Dat hypocrisy though...


For soviets, losing time is a problem. For Ostheer it's core design.

"For ost, you have to build tier1 in order to get anything else than HMG - core desing"
What if I told you: For Sovs, you have to build T1 in order to get anything else than Cons - Core design.

Check your facts better.

Lol I have to check facts better ? Maybe I wasn´t putting my thoughts well here, but at least I´m not biased like someone here

I say this once again, ostheer isn´t losing time, ostheer is losing only map. Your hmg is producing while you are building tier1 and once you get mg42, you will already have tier1 build. You don´t lose any time of idle unit production, all you lose is cca 10-20 seconds of pioneers, that are building tier1 meantime.
This is something like one strategic point whitch should have been captured.

Soviets lose 30 seconds total because they cannot train units that are worth (can we all agree getting 1 conscript with tier1 is bad and will hurt you more than give you advantage of early capping. Please).

So difference between soviets and ostheer here is rather big. Ostheer will lose 1 territory compared to factions that didn´t build tier1 (cca 20 seconds of pioneer time) whereas soviet player will lose 30 seconds total resulting into one less territory capped by enginner squad and also 1 less squad on the field in the early game becuase all other factions will have 2 combat squads (OKW even3) at time you build your first penal. To better understand this, at same time ostheer will have hmg42 (capped 1 point or got key house) and 1 gren squad (in base) and pioneer capping (1st point capped) while soviets will only have 1 enginner capping (1 point) and 1 penal at base.

Yes, after some time both factions will have same units value, because they both run out of manpower, but the problem is early power. In super early game your foes will have 1 more squad on field and also sooner, resulting into better positions and bigger pressure.

He didn't PROVE anything. He claims it is harsh but that doesn't mean it is. Teching T2 for Zis is a very small investment. Hector thinks it's harsh because it means less penalspam.

T70 takes 3 shots to kill in WBP. It's now even more superior to AC and Luchs.

You want to tell me that having army compositions consisting of 3 penals, engineer and zis without against 4grens (or 3 volks 1 sturmpio) and 1 luch/222+ flamercar doesn´t mean anything ? You are clearly outcapped and driven from game. You have smaller infantry base than enemy and he also have mobile vehicle, meaning you cannot go offensive because he will pick you one at one and also you suck at defensive because one bad move, you have to retreat penals and zis is dead, giving enemy both tool to counter your light tank and also setting you even back because you will have to get another zis.

Lol investment to backtech for tier2 to get zis is small. You won´t to tell me that paying 480MP for AT gun in most critical moment of game is small investment. Lol you´re so funny.

Btw, if you´re such a pro and you can win using penals without PTRS and zis show us this by giving us replay because as far as I know, there isn´t possible way to win against axis factions with tier1 into zis opening. Its really the same as ostheer against USA with stuart and quad in current patch except you don´t have 444, you don´t have mg42, you don´t have snares, you don´t have to idle 30 seconds, you don´t need to backtech for AT and you won´t have medium tank turning battle in your favor any sooner

So opponent dont use falme ht/222/luhs/aaht ?

Keep in mind have mainly played 2v2s recently and only one Soviet v OKW matchup I can think of.

Luchs didn't really push me around a whole lot. I lost engagements due to the luchs, but I was close enough to T4 at that point I didn't bother going for anything T3. I did utilize Guards though. However, I also placed mines early on. While my opponent saw, I think it still made him too paranoid to send his Luchs anywhere that offensively. They didn't use AAHT. Also I actually haven't seen AAHTs being used in 2v2s either.

The 222 is the only thing that has consistently made me actually feel the need for Guards before I could tech for anything. But as long as I keep my units in cover they don't push me off nearly fast enough. The early game dominance keeps that fuel income heavy and steady, and usually guarantees being able to respond to whatever the Axis manages to scrape together. I mean, here's the thing: against a good 222 I'll lose the VP advantage for a while, but generally I don't see my fuel threatened when I'm against Ostheer. I'm usually denying most, if not all of their territory early on.

Interestingly enough OKW usually is able to harass resources with their kubel. The kubel always dies eventually but the income they can deny usually gives OKW the breathing space they need to tech at somewhat a similar pace. Having to send my otherwise flanking/harassing penal battalion to handle the kubel can be such a pain.

As for the Flame Halftrack I haven't fought against it yet in 1v1s, but I see it in 2v2s. In one of those cases my british ally immediately AECed its face off. Otherwise I've gone T1>T2, then teched the moment I had enough fuel to churn out T34/85s til victory by VP.

And so I have yet to have any inclination to get PTRS and AT Satchels on Penals because Guards (specifically Guard motor) has always been a superior decision. Every light vehicle rush I have faced either came too late that I was close enough to T4 to just temporarily sacrifice the map control, or they didn't have significant ability to keep me off the field.

I think it's worth noting I also spam mines as Soviets. I do it in plain sight sometimes to make sure my opponent isn't comfortable rushing or flanking anywhere without sweepers.

lol..u have no clue what do u say there...penals with ptrs kill flame HT in under 10sec...with 2 shoots from every ptrs.

man..pls test the penals with ptrs...they kill panther in under 45sec

This guy...

Maybe flame ht doesn't counter ptrs penals, but that's ok because from the sound of it anything with two legs will, and he basically totally discredited himself by saying "they kill panther in under 45sec". 45 SECONDS? You could drive back and forth a 4v4 map two or three times with 45 seconds and a panther. The penals will probably die within 45 seconds to the panther's mg's. So axis's ubermenschen krupp steel panzers should be able to sit under fire from what's basically a dedicated AT unit for 45 seconds?

Just a random thing that hasn't really been mentioned due to the storm of penal discussion: how will increasing the stuart's main gun penetration to 75/60/55 allow it to scale better? It barely scratches mediums even on penetration in the rear from my experience, and buffing penetration to that amount won't really change its effectiveness, as it won't allow it to reliably penetrate anything more than it already does.

Just a random thing that hasn't really been mentioned due to the storm of penal discussion: how will increasing the stuart's main gun penetration to 75/60/55 allow it to scale better? It barely scratches mediums even on penetration in the rear from my experience, and buffing penetration to that amount won't really change its effectiveness, as it won't allow it to reliably penetrate anything more than it already does.

Higher damage vs tanks = faster veterancy gain.

Medium tanks have about 70-90 rear armour, so a value of 75 near is pretty good.

Bugs I've found:
- fausts still disappear (probably well known)
- gren rifle nade animation does not play or plays delayed, the warning also comes delayed (speech warning) so that there is 0 chance to actually react to the voice line
- ISU 152 concrete shot collides with terrain making the ability not hit the intended target
- zis guns using the ambush ability reload slowly
- units call out their own grenades with grenade warnings
- radio intercept: no voice lines for almost all okw units and tech

Hope this is helpful

Thank you guys for all the work you're putting into this. All the bug fixes make the game 10 times better already, thank you.

Higher damage vs tanks = faster veterancy gain.

Medium tanks have about 70-90 rear armour, so a value of 75 near is pretty good.

Ah, that does actually sound pretty useful then. Thanks for the reply.

This guy...

Maybe flame ht doesn't counter ptrs penals, but that's ok because from the sound of it anything with two legs will, and he basically totally discredited himself by saying "they kill panther in under 45sec". 45 SECONDS? You could drive back and forth a 4v4 map two or three times with 45 seconds and a panther. The penals will probably die within 45 seconds to the panther's mg's. So axis's ubermenschen krupp steel panzers should be able to sit under fire from what's basically a dedicated AT unit for 45 seconds?

i want to show only the dmg from the ptrs...and didnt say that a penal with ptrs will kill a panther alone in a normal fight.

Iam Surrounded by idiots?

Higher damage vs tanks = faster veterancy gain.

Medium tanks have about 70-90 rear armour, so a value of 75 near is pretty good.

I didn't try a lot the stuart in the mod but a value of 75 near isn't going to cut it with the nerf on the stun shot.
Before going further: I'm not against the nerf. But the immobilization was the way to go near and then leave safely the area. Without that, you can't go sneaky behind a panther with a reasonable % of chance to come back alive.
Now that the stun only disable the main gun and vision, tanks will be able to follow you until the stun delay fade away and take your stuart down.

I mean, Stuart stun ability is kind of lame early game, but vs bigger cats, using it requires skill and need to be rewarded when well executed.

Imo, there are 4 options to overcome this issue.

1- put back the stun shot as it was BUT lock it behind vet1. So stuarts aren't that powerful vs 222s and Pumas when they it the field. = Reward good play and preservation.

2a- Increase the Stun shot range. Stuart can now use its ability more safely
2b- Increase the Stun shot range at vet1 if 2a is too powerful when the stuart hit the field

3a- Increase the Stun shot ability duration, so the stuart has more chances to come back alive
3b- Increase the Stun shot ability duration at vet1 if 3a is too powerful when the stuart hit the field

4- Increase Stuart lifepool at vet1 or vet2, so it can take one more hit.

With the Stuart, reaching vet1 is the more complicated because it is at vet1 that you gain full vision, once vet1, if you don't do anything silly your usually reach vet2 easily.

I have to agree with this unfortunately. And looks like ShadowWadaaa's pessimism
and concerns weren't that unfounded after all. But at least the ones who are disappointed with this diminishing support can move on with closure and a definite conclusion.

It aint pessimism when it is FACT. The Frontline Network left. Sundaynight fights left. Romeo left. Momo left. I left. Everyone left cuz they got tired of relic's incompetence. March ESL patch broke the AEC and it took them a month to fix that and the broken brit arty callin because Brad took a week off for the sniffles but was well enough to 1v1 Queen Ratchet on momo's stream. Veterency was broken during ESL. The hotfix broke the game. March ESL had broken maxim spam that got patch a month after ESL. Brad & the dev team got fired after ESL. USF mortar had a vet bug which took the weekend to fix and a month to nerf the mortar and it was still OP.

Warpaint was a flop: Naggono was disqualified for no reason since they did nothing with the in person final. The pregame stream wasn't even full screen webcam. The audio was shitty. No face cams of players during the game. More people watched the opening rounds than the finals tbh (Maybe cuz the great shadowwada was in the opening). After warpaint, none of the players actually play or stream the game since they just come back for the money. No follow up tournaments by Relic or community members since there isn't anyone left in the community & warpaint was just a commercial to sell skins

August roadmap finally gets released near end of october to tell us the december patch is coming out in February #QuarterlyUpdates. Though a december $kin patch gets released that somehow breaks the game's art assets. In regards to the real patch, that community members are doing since relic can't be bothered to hire devs to fix their own game, it bring decent quality of life changes such as buffing weh inf early game & nerfing T-70 since it took relic a year to figure that out but doesn't touch the main fundamental problems such as OKW, Brits, USF sucking and dumb RNG like weapon drops & vehicle abandons. Also the game has a shit ton of glitches that need to be fixed.

In closing, I see the game for the clown fiesta it is so don't say I'm pessimistic when you're overly optimistic when there is ZERO evidence to back it up. By every metric CoH2 is a dead game so if you want a balanced game, wait for the community to get relic's job done for them. If you want new content, wait for DoW3. If you want a real game, play anything other than coh2 tbh (or herp derp 4v4s if thats your thing). I went above and beyond the call of duty to try to make coh2 esports a reality but relic's actions shows they don't care about it and/or are incompetent to implement it so I've moved on. My actions over this past year showed my commitment to the community so don't say I wasn't optimistic.

Is it possible to take away the auto fire from the british mortar bit and give it only possibility to fire manually?

i want to show only the dmg from the ptrs...and didnt say that a penal with ptrs will kill a panther alone in a normal fight.

Iam Surrounded by idiots?

No, your communication skills suck and nobody knows what the fuck you're on about

In closing, I see the game for the clown fiesta it is so don't say I'm pessimistic when you're overly optimistic when there is ZERO evidence to back it up. By every metric CoH2 is a dead game so if you want a balanced game, wait for the community to get relic's job done for them.

Relic needs to let the community patch the game as WE feel best. Their current tactic of severely limiting the scope of changes is way too controlling and they won't get the best results from such a strategy

No, your communication skills suck and nobody knows what the fuck you're on about

maybe ...cause english isnt my motherspeak? But i think everybody know what i mean.
only if u want to troll me...u dont know what i mean.

By every metric CoH2 is a dead game so if you want a balanced game, wait for the community to get relic's job done for them. If you want new content, wait for DoW3. If you want a real game, play anything other than coh2 tbh (or herp derp 4v4s if thats your thing). I went above and beyond the call of duty to try to make coh2 esports a reality but relic's actions shows they don't care about it and/or are incompetent to implement it so I've moved on. My actions over this past year showed my commitment to the community so don't say I wasn't optimistic.

That was a very depressing read.