Wait am I just going crazy or what? I can't play right now but I could've sworn the m6 mine is the tm-35 clone you can lay with infantry, and the m5 is the one you get from the m20...
If I'm not mistaken, brit engies lay a modified M6 mine. Though I guess someone could open the game and check. I would but rage uninstalled after 6000th m3 flamer car and penal blab.
Also, I agree with Luciano that the tread-break AT mines need to go from all factions. I don't think anything should be so punishing when there's very little difference in price and difficulty to lay them.
Not totally sure about Tellers though, since Ost have no early light tank and are much more vulnerable to lights than every other faction. Seems fair they should have something to balance things up in the light vehicle game. But not sure.
Anyone see Barton replay where mines+demos one-shotted tanks? Ugh.
CoH1 soundtrack - epic, exciting, awesome. Shattered... Omg, shattered...
Dramatic, tense, created a sense of urgency.
CoH2 soundtrack is the Ed Sheeran of game soundtracks. Safe. Familiar. Vanilla. Lame.
Yes they nerfed the cmd panther, kinda.
Why is it every single game i play they can spam the arty flaires with upgraded volks??
I mean they can litterally do it the whole game then add it in with non doct support units, mgs pak howies and the stuka erases them???
It is the most cheese shit in the game especially when allies rely on weaker tanks and flanks, how when they can see us the entire game, annnnd then you have command panther on top of it??? Major recon should be free if arty flaires dont cost morey
I love axis bitch about rifle blobs but they have all the tools that null allied blobbing but say hey you xant blob but i can because we dont have nuclear bomb sutrmtifers that fire from fow. Any of you wver tried to send 1 rifle double barred against 3 lmg grens, hr cant even make it into firing range before he has to retreat
Wish I'd seen the game where you got rrrekt so hard by flares you had to come raging on here with misinformation and the objectivity of a teenage girl.
Arty flares cost money. So that basically nullifies your whole point.
Secondly - by choosing this doc, you have no offmap artillery. This is called a trade-off. Something you allied players know little about. eg "I want powerful T1 Penals but it's not fair they can be countered so I want them to also have AT"
Take several chill-pills, relax, it's recon flares, they do cost muni and they're not anywhere near as ridiculous as the Brit recon plane on bren carrier was.
Wow, those changes. Did expect that coming
Guys, as much as i'm against mortar pit spams and abusement i wonder if the pit is able to fight vs leigs after that reduce range changes. This emplacement will be kinda useless if it's gonna be simply outrange by other units this type (mortar vet2 or meansioned leig)
I wouldn't say "useless" it'll still have brace and the Brit player can send out their tommies to push back the Leig while engies repair the mortar pit. Combined arms, etc.
Currently the mortar is countering its own counters. Let's make Brit players work for their right to have semi-indestructible indirect fire?
OP - WHY NO CHANGES TO SOVIET CLOWN CAR!? C'mon, if you can stop the Kubel bleeding manpower, surely you can stop cheesemongers from splurging all over the map with flamers, wiping harrassing units and flanking MGS...
Is this a stealth request to give Wehrmacht another Wunderwaffen?
Another...? Which Wunderwaffe do you believe they already have? Tiger, lol?
Ele is about the only thing you could call Wunderwaffe but it's extremely late, expensive and needs a ton of support, which is usually already wiped by katys, mattress, WunderBritPits and so on and so forth.
Or were you talking about the WunderStug?
Despite reply clearly not needed on .org...
1. Loved about CoH1:
A.. Atmosphere. Realism in terms of voice acting, map appearance.
B. Map balance
C. Mechanisms like suppression. They play a much smaller role in CoH2. Blobbing is rampant.
D. Flanking. In CoH1 this was a huge factor. In CoH2 with the maps being so small, this is less important. Blobbing is more effective than flanking
E. As Nosliw recently explained - global upgrades are lacking and it's more beneficial to simple get a larger army than upgrade what you have. The Wehr CoH1 mechanics of vetting via fuel was inspired. Tech up vs vertical tech offered many strategic options.
2. Don't know. CoH2's Real sight is excellent. It's a huge improvement and offers many interesting possibilities. Vaulting also a big improvement. I don't know what else could be improved from coh1
3. CoH1 excelled: Dynamic gameplay. Turtling was punishedm blobbing was mostly punished. Brits messed CoH1 up a lot with Arty commander but aside from that, the axis-allied match-up was quite fair.
4. Truesight = epic! Commander design = liner, boring and prone to meta.
5. Cut: Emplacements. Garrisons on high res points, one-shot-wipe units / Very powerful AoE units, FRP, godawful voice acting. CUT the point capture mechanic! Being able to sit in a trench and hold a point is severely detrimental to armies without trenchs. I like the fact that in CoH1 capturing a point reduced DPS by X% of your squad.
6. Truesight, faction diversity
7. Untapped potential: Micro-intensive skirmishes where each skirmish matters. CoH2 gives the feeling that mistakes largely go unpunished and assembling a critical mass is more important than making superior micro/marco decisions.
...and I guess everybody agrees with that (other than those that find diversity irrelevant). You sounded earlier like you meant that diversity has no quality whatsoever.
Either way, the poll is not about balance. And actually I think it is also not about diversity either (because it doesn't ask if they diverse way in which FRPs are implemented is beneficial to gameplay; ok, you could argue that having FRPs allows for more diversity in how they are implemented). My impression is that the question is more about if the mechanic of FRPs helps gameplay, regardless of which faction it has or how it is implemented in detail.
In the spirit of your signature, I'll start a list of pro's an cons.
Reasons why FRPs could be detrimental to gameplay:
- Promote blobbing
- Reduce the value of soft retreats
- Reduce the penalty for being suppressed
Reasons why FRPs could be beneficial to gameplay:
- Add a strategic decision (tactical in case of USF) on when and where to set up the FRP.
- Add a counterplay mechanic to blobs (force retreat, barrage FRP)
- More usefulness for static artillery
- Reduces downtime in a game
Feel free to add points to both lists.
Now, the thing is, we probably weigh the points above in a different way and thus come overall to a different opinion. For example, I personally (as stated before) am not convinced that "1: Promote blobbing" really is a thing and feel that the points in the second list outweigh the remaining points in the upper list. Other people value the points in the upper list more and thus come to the overall conclusion that FRPs are detrimental, and that's fine.
Sorry for the ambiguity. I can see why you interpreted it that way.
Yeah, the lists you made are valid and as you said it comes down to weight. I put a lot of weight on the blobbing and penalty reduction for being suppressed. I see those as core game features. What do you think?
D is interesting. For large maps, which are badly designed with lots of dead space - FRP would be beneficial. Though I'd prefer a map fix really.
Anyway, hard to find a definite answer to it. Was cool to read your post, thanks
This is gibberish.
This is true, there are lots of good RTS games with good diversity. In fact when this game went into beta I thought it was going to be a boring rip off compared to the free COHO before hand; because it was bland... When the USF/OKW entered I felt it got far more fun.
So rather than remove it and make the game that much more bland, why not just make it doctrinal for the teams that don't have (like with a correctly balanced Sov FHQ and an expensive doctrinal upgrade to a command bunker for OST.
If blobs are your concern lock all FRP abilities behind T4 purchase so they come late when blobbing should be easily dealt with. The Sov don't have one currently and team games are poisoned by Penal blobs right now, so FRP is clearly not the reason for blobs.
If FRP go, Major will be a nearly worthless purchase except for those that are at the very top of the USF skill player base and most OKW trucks will just sit at base totally voiding their point.
Your inability to understand a perfectly cogent sentence does not make it gibberish. Replying "this is gibberish" instead of "please explain what you mean" is very childish and leads me to believe you are not worth talking to at all.
In fact all your posts really just say "I LOVE THIS FEATURE AND WILL NOT RECONSIDER MY POSITION!" So, happy blobbing, happy Britting, you're not worth talking to at all.
I don't think that that's a good point. Think about it this way: Take two perfectly balanced games. In one of them all factions play exactly the same, in the other the gameplay for each faction is different. Which game would you prefer?
It's fine if you say you don't care and you would enjoy both equally. But you have to at least admit that a lot of people will favor the second game over the first. Why? Because they enjoy the gameplay more with diversity. I guess everybody will agree that diversity won't trump everything else. But then I'd say that most people would favor a balanced and divers solution over an only balanced solution, no?
I'll tackle the first word first. As as I wrote somewhere on page 5 in response to Callum, I'm not convinced that Blobbing an FRP are as intertwined as some people feel they are. Maybe you can address my points there?
Or, conversely, to look at this post:
No doubt, that's frustrating. Let me tell another (totally fictional) story:
Or, in other words: FRP are an advantage for blobbers as well as people that properly smoke and flank. And I really doubt that blobbing will become less pronounced with FRP removed; it might actually have the opposite effect (see my previous post). The last blob I encountered was a Penal PTRS blob, so...
If the argument is that "OKW FRP is too strong/comes to early", FRPs are a nobrainer/have to little downsides, or what not: Well, I would mostly agree, but I'd consider those balance issues, not gameplay.
Now, on to the other word, "Strategists": I can agree with your description of "gameplay" that you give some posts earlier. As you noted, "gameplay" encompasses a long list of things. I have the impression that we have this discussion because the importance of things on this list is very subjective.
If the key thing for you is unit micro, I can totally see why you feel that FRPs are detrimental to gameplay because they reduce the penalty for a mismicro.
However, I'd say microing your units is not a part of the strategical aspect of this game. Strategy would more entail stuff like the commander choice, tech and build orders and, yes, a decisions like: Do I set up an FRP, when and where? So, I'd argue that a lot of the literal "Strategist" would actually feel like some element they can strategize about would be taken away with the removal of the FRP; so the removal would be detrimental to their flavor of gameplay.
I didn't say that diversity "wasn't an issue at all". I said it was a much lower priority than balance.
Using your example, if there were 2 games, 1 with perfect balance but identical gameplay for factions, the other with horrible balance but diverse gameplay. Which would you play?
But what I'm trying to say is balance comes first and saying "this feature makes the game diverse" does not mean that the feature is automatically good. If the feature spoils balance,it should be reconsidered. That is all. Diversity is great and interesting but not when it comes at the cost of balance.
And why is diversity not or, cannot or should not be a goal in itself? Please explain that first. Because otherwise, Relic should have been better off designing Ostheer clones factions.
Diversity was and is a very big reason why people like me buy DLC.
In that case, it would be possible to have a faction that gets tier 3 tanks at tier 1.Because it's diverse.
You see, diversity cannot be a goal in itself or else we would end up with all kinds of nonsense. In the name of diversity.
So no, diversity is not a goal in itself. It is there to serve the higher principle of enjoyable gameplay. And the fact that FRP reduces the enjoyability of gameplay for those factions without it, or indeed for those players who hate facing blobs and the other knock-on effects, means it should be examined under the philosophy of "does this improve gameplay or spoil it?"
My answer to that is it spoils it and enables cheesy thoughtless strategy.If you enjoy cheesy thoughtless blob strategy, that is your choice. Ultimately it will come down to which group Relic value more. Blobbers or Strategists.