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russian armor

[SOV] Guards Motor Commander

11 Oct 2016, 15:01 PM
#1
avatar of RiCE

Posts: 284

This commander is the one and only choice for all soviet player. Contain everything needed through the whole game, and single handedly the most powerful soviet meta atm. I personally think, it should be rebalanced a bit.

  • Simply you go double penal, upgrade them with flamer as fast as you can.
  • Optionally you can build a sniper for extra fun, or simply build fuel cache.
  • Then you go double guards, upgrade them with PTRS asap.
  • You can either go for fast T3 and T70 if you had early game dominance...
  • ..or you can go directly for T4 and build T34/85


This is it. In the rest of the match you only need to follow the obvious rules: unit preservation, build fuel cache when you can afford it, spend munition only on vehicle button and mark target vehicle.

I think this build order is the most fail safe, if not the most powerful soviet build order. Basically because T34/85 can be reached too fast. It should be locked behind 8 CP minimum (if not more). Also T34/85 is a replaceable tank, pretty fast so it can flank easily and perfectly good against any infantry too.

The other problem is Penals flamethrower upgrade. It makes the unit too strong. I wish Volks would have flamethrowers instead of SMGs.

And finally how veteran Guards literally snipe infantry models...
11 Oct 2016, 15:34 PM
#2
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Oct 2016, 15:01 PMRiCE

  • Simply you go double penal, upgrade them with flamer as fast as you can.
  • Optionally you can build a sniper for extra fun, or simply build fuel cache.
  • Then you go double guards, upgrade them with PTRS asap.
  • You can either go for fast T3 and T70 if you had early game dominance...
  • ..or you can go directly for T4 and build T34/85


Please, tell me you've actually meant it.
11 Oct 2016, 15:38 PM
#3
avatar of vasa1719

Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4

Permanently Banned
This commander is the one and only choice for all soviet player (c)
Cool, how many soviet have doc and only one are good. Soviet OP.
11 Oct 2016, 15:40 PM
#4
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

First of all, replays/rank/game mode please.

Guard Motor is not OP but it's the safe choice (as it has been during the whole life of the game). Units and abilities show up on several other commanders but the combination of them let it cover several bases.

Some errors:
-You don't upgrade them with PTRS, it's with DPs. DPs are overpriced if you account for the cost of button and it's effect.
-The whole point of removing the ability to be a call in was that it was gated through tech. If someone is pulling "fast" T3485s/E8s (same concept applying) then you are really far behind and the other guy gave up on secondary teching (upgrades) or pulling light vehicles.
Since the changes to T76s and Su85s, i don't think they are as required as before.
-Guards no longer snipe infantry since they reduce PTRS damage against infantry. Grenadiers Kar98 deals more DPS against infantry than Guard PTRS at all distances. When upgraded with DPs, they are basically 6man grenadiers with an LMG42.

If you are complaining about Guard Motor, you should as well mention the 120mm mortar and crew repair (which for some reason it halves your muni income per tank use). Your rant seems more a wide complain about SU as a whole and it's current meta (Penals).


What things could see changing:
-Nerfing/changing vet 3 accuracy on Penals
-T3485s shouldn't benefit from the T76 MG buffs. Alternative increase by +5f and a bit mp (basically it's old single call in cost)
11 Oct 2016, 16:22 PM
#5
avatar of Tasty

Posts: 40

Most people use it because Conscripts are just awful and Soviets don't have too many options without giving away the whole game, it's not a problem with the Commander in particular, though Guards PTRS could use a slight dmg reduction against inf.
The 85 isn't even that good, it's okay at best for the price and needs T4 teching.
12 Oct 2016, 08:32 AM
#6
avatar of The amazing Chandler

Posts: 1355

First of all, replays/rank/game mode please.

Guard Motor is not OP but it's the safe choice (as it has been during the whole life of the game). Units and abilities show up on several other commanders but the combination of them let it cover several bases.

Some errors:
-You don't upgrade them with PTRS, it's with DPs. DPs are overpriced if you account for the cost of button and it's effect.
-The whole point of removing the ability to be a call in was that it was gated through tech. If someone is pulling "fast" T3485s/E8s (same concept applying) then you are really far behind and the other guy gave up on secondary teching (upgrades) or pulling light vehicles.
Since the changes to T76s and Su85s, i don't think they are as required as before.
-Guards no longer snipe infantry since they reduce PTRS damage against infantry. Grenadiers Kar98 deals more DPS against infantry than Guard PTRS at all distances. When upgraded with DPs, they are basically 6man grenadiers with an LMG42.

If you are complaining about Guard Motor, you should as well mention the 120mm mortar and crew repair (which for some reason it halves your muni income per tank use). Your rant seems more a wide complain about SU as a whole and it's current meta (Penals).


What things could see changing:
-Nerfing/changing vet 3 accuracy on Penals
-T3485s shouldn't benefit from the T76 MG buffs. Alternative increase by +5f and a bit mp (basically it's old single call in cost)


:clap:

I am not using this commander that often. I have the feeling (probably its just me) that Guards are not that good against LMG Grens. Maybe i am not so good with them.
12 Oct 2016, 08:55 AM
#7
avatar of zerocoh

Posts: 926



:clap:

I am not using this commander that often. I have the feeling (probably its just me) that Guards are not that good against LMG Grens. Maybe i am not so good with them.


Upgrage them with DPs and ALWAYS keep them at maximum distance. At vet 3 guards reign supreme. but they will make you bleed so keeping them at range not only reduce the bleeding but also grants damage.

And it's not that guard motor is OP, everything else is too meh.
12 Oct 2016, 09:00 AM
#8
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 18


What things could see changing:
-Nerfing/changing vet 3 accuracy on Penals
-T3485s shouldn't benefit from the T76 MG buffs. Alternative increase by +5f and a bit mp (basically it's old single call in cost)


What he said.

IMO, the thing that makes Penals so bullshit is the fact that they can upgrade flamers without losing their long-range DPS. Basically, that's Rifle Company v2.0.

That's because there's no single place you can put your MG so that it stays safe:
- Garrison? Toasted.
- Heavy cover? Toasted.
- Yellow cover? Shot and burned.
- No cover? RIP.

In bigger game modes, there's absolutely no way you can stop a Penal horde with MGs (plural). Even with ambush camouflage MGs, you can maybe force a retreat a few times. However, at some point they are going to overwhelm you, and recrew the MG with a 6-man Penal crew.

Then, you are going to have a really bad time.



12 Oct 2016, 10:54 AM
#9
avatar of Hater

Posts: 493

I'm finding funny to myself that all complaints consist of describing what you can built but you never need to adapt, never lost anything, never having troubles to cap resources. Building THIS and THIS brings AUTOWIN to u, mah boi!!1
12 Oct 2016, 11:13 AM
#10
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066


Please, tell me you've actually meant it.


I think he meant upgrade them with DPs
12 Oct 2016, 13:37 PM
#11
avatar of Standard_jager

Posts: 25 | Subs: 1



I think he meant upgrade them with DPs


Oh you ruined my best day!
14 Oct 2016, 21:26 PM
#12
avatar of JackDickolson

Posts: 181

This doctrine was a balance problem since its incarnation, and with the recent penal and T34 buffs, it's gotten worse.
14 Oct 2016, 21:35 PM
#13
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1



What he said.

IMO, the thing that makes Penals so bullshit is the fact that they can upgrade flamers without losing their long-range DPS. Basically, that's Rifle Company v2.0.

Yeah, I really think, their amazing vet aside, 50/50 odds for 1v1ing LMG42 Grens at max range is just too good. The upgraded unit at 80% of the MP cost should absolutely be advantaged in the their specialized range. Knock off, say, 5% of their long accuracy and they'll still be miles ahead of Scripts there while not having such reasonable odds against LMG42 Grens.
14 Oct 2016, 23:55 PM
#14
avatar of Onimusha

Posts: 147

Maybe vs ostheer that strategy could work , but if okw rushes luchs, 2 guards are not enough to stop that tank. Maybe you can survive until t70 comes out if maps is full of green covers, but when the enemy focus your guard squads and you must retrat everything there is a risk of a base rape. You could have shreck or a raketen that you must keep behind the luchs when you have to deal vs t70 , or you can go puma. And a soviet that spam flamer penals has not so much muni to mine a lot. Vs ostheer yeah, penals + guards are a solid build.
15 Oct 2016, 08:29 AM
#15
avatar of Myself

Posts: 677


What he said.
IMO, the thing that makes Penals so bullshit is the fact that they can upgrade flamers without losing their long-range DPS. Basically, that's Rifle Company v2.0.


I had pointed out this issue from the time it was only in the mod (along with US mortar issue...), only to end up with a long debate about how Penal would be fine...

Infantry units should not dominate at all ranges.

Relic should simply readopt the weapon profiles and avoid mixing weapon that do not work together.

It is actually refreshing seeing people that did not agree changing their mind (not referring o anyone particular)...
15 Oct 2016, 13:00 PM
#16
avatar of Bulgakov

Posts: 987

I think penals with flamers were ok back when T1 was weak and before the penals got buffed. But now, six man mainline inf with flamer and long rang DPS...

I think flamers should only be available to weak units like engies, sappers, pios. Flamers are so strong, there should be a weakness to them.

And yeah, Guards Motor... Strong call-in inf with AT that nullify light vehicles and anti-inf capability.

Mark target to rip through tanks

T34-85 is a great medium tank, better than PIV in my opinion.

Everyone's using it, it's all over every tournament. I think the doctrine is a bit too strong.

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