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russian armor

KT, Why?

4 Jul 2016, 13:27 PM
#41
avatar of CartoonVillain

Posts: 474

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Jul 2016, 11:29 AMEsxile


KT is, mechanism to get it not. All trucks should be alive to be able to call it.


I don't agree. Aggressive truck play is paramount to success as OKW. If you require all trucks to be standing everyone will just build them in the base.
4 Jul 2016, 13:39 PM
#42
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3596 | Subs: 1

So play aggressive and don't lose your trucks.
4 Jul 2016, 14:21 PM
#43
avatar of Domine

Posts: 500

I also think we should lock USF from building any units if Captain/Lieutenant/Major dies and to rebuild them they should pay full teching price again.

100% fair
4 Jul 2016, 14:40 PM
#44
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474



I think Butcher has caught the gist of the thing here.

There are two minor nuisances at play here, that conspire together to create an annoying situation.

(Assume that teching costs are equal among all factions), the truck feature of OKW presents them with a risk-reward thing for their T4:
- They get a flak emplacement mounted on the truck, for free.
- .. but, if they lose the flak emplacement, they can't summon armour/elite infantry

Depending on how often you manage to lose your first T4, you either massively benefit from that feature (free lockdown on your cutoff), or you are royally screwed by it.

However, the KT, and the call-ins available to many OKW commanders all conspire to completely negate the risk part of this risk-reward:
- I opportunistically lock down some territory, and start production as usual
- If my opponent takes down my free flak emplacement, I opt-in to one of the call-in commanders; I'm saved.

Basically, the best solution I can think of is along the lines of:


I'd tweak the T4 as follows:
- First T4 costs as much as it currently costs
- In order to unlock the Flak emplacement feature, you pay ~300MP/70FU on top of that
- If you lose your T4, you can replace your T4 for free (you only pay for the sWs truck cost)
- Each time you want to reenable the flak cannon, you have to pay the same premium (300MP/70FU)
- (flak cannon gets attack ground)

Although this didn't present an issue before, the MedHQ pricing is also inconsistent (to OKW's detriment, though). It would be nice if it was tweaked in a similar way:
- MedHQ costs nothing to deploy (except for summoning the truck), and you get access to healing from the get-go
- To unlock reinforcement point/T1 units you pay a premium (equal to the cost of the current T1 + healing unlock)

(to get credit for the KT, you obviously need to have researched the MedHQ upgrade)

If we change the OKW truck system to work like this, I don't think it will matter to anybody, any more, whether the KT requires all trucks up to be set up or not.
+1 but 70 fuel is too much maybe 50 and 200 mp
4 Jul 2016, 14:44 PM
#45
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

+1 but 70 fuel is too much maybe 50 and 200 mp


The cost is debatable, of course.

If the Schewer is meant to be cost-efficient, it would be nice to attach some popcap cost to it. Otherwise, you pay an extra premium so that it doesn't cost you popcap (sort of how OST bunker pricing works)

(I forgot to mention that I consider Bofors to be incredibly underpriced, and its cost should go up to around the same price-range)

EDIT: You are correct. I intended the sWs truck cost + reactivating Schewer to cost about 300MP + 70FU. Thus your estimate was much closer to the one I mentioned.

4 Jul 2016, 15:00 PM
#46
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Jul 2016, 14:21 PMDomine
I also think we should lock USF from building any units if Captain/Lieutenant/Major dies and to rebuild them they should pay full teching price again.

100% fair

There is a bit of a difference.
Cap/LT/Major do not poop units out, the destructible buildings in the base do.

Unless you're trolling, then good job, you got me.

Also +1 to what Mr.Smith said, if its going to cost less to rebuild, it should also have a pop cap.
4 Jul 2016, 15:14 PM
#47
avatar of BIH_kirov_QC

Posts: 367

AM i missing a new change to OKW here?

To get an KT you need to make every tier 1 time, even if if u get it destroyed after, u can still call a KT,

You just need to have it build 1 time. You don't need to have all 3 tiers building alive to can call a KT.
4 Jul 2016, 15:34 PM
#48
avatar of Domine

Posts: 500


There is a bit of a difference.
Cap/LT/Major do not poop units out, the destructible buildings in the base do.

Unless you're trolling, then good job, you got me.

Also +1 to what Mr.Smith said, if its going to cost less to rebuild, it should also have a pop cap.



And neither do the T4 poop units out, the units come from offmap.

But we can ofcourse also make the three Officer not spawn instantly, but only spawn for a 15 fuel 150mp side tech after you unlocked the tech already.

Fair is fair.
4 Jul 2016, 15:38 PM
#49
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Jul 2016, 15:34 PMDomine



And neither do the T4 poop units out, the units come from offmap.

But we can ofcourse also make the three Officer not spawn instantly, but only spawn for a 15 fuel 150mp side tech after you unlocked the tech already.

Fair is fair.
It does poop obers though.
4 Jul 2016, 15:43 PM
#50
avatar of Grittle

Posts: 179

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Jul 2016, 15:34 PMDomine



And neither do the T4 poop units out, the units come from offmap.

But we can ofcourse also make the three Officer not spawn instantly, but only spawn for a 15 fuel 150mp side tech after you unlocked the tech already.

Fair is fair.


If you want to make an appropriate analogy , it would have to be like this:

Unlock Captain, but have to spend 50 munitions to acquire a zooka for it
4 Jul 2016, 15:50 PM
#51
avatar of Domine

Posts: 500



If you want to make an appropriate analogy , it would have to be like this:

Unlock Captain, but have to spend 50 munitions to acquire a zooka for it



No, an appropriate analogy would be this:

Tech, spend 15 fuel and 150 mp for captain, then equip him with bazooka for 50 munitions/100 munitions for 2 bazookas.

Because why should they have it for free?
4 Jul 2016, 16:08 PM
#52
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Jul 2016, 15:50 PMDomine



No, an appropriate analogy would be this:

Tech, spend 15 fuel and 150 mp for captain, then equip him with bazooka for 50 munitions/100 munitions for 2 bazookas.

Because why should they have it for free?


I think it would be a nice idea to make USF officers opt-in only. That way, people wouldn't have to forced to get a squad that:
- Is subpar to RE/Riflemen squads
- gets access to inferior veterancy
- has increased cost to reinforce (due to a bug)
- costs the full popcap of a Rifle squad
- gives away techning choices

It would also go along the vein of:
- The T0 mortar change, which should make USF openings less obvious/predictable
- Making all factions pay for their faction benefits (bringing them in-line to EFA factions)

However, would it be possible to restrict the discussion to OKW trucks? I am getting this itchy feeling that the thread is about to get derailed to another "Teller mines vs Demo charges" type of discussion :snfQuinn:
4 Jul 2016, 16:16 PM
#53
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Jul 2016, 15:34 PMDomine



And neither do the T4 poop units out, the units come from offmap.

But we can ofcourse also make the three Officer not spawn instantly, but only spawn for a 15 fuel 150mp side tech after you unlocked the tech already.

Fair is fair.

It actually do now :snfPeter:

Also, did you missed for the last 2 years that USF have side grades?
4 Jul 2016, 16:46 PM
#54
avatar of Domine

Posts: 500


It actually do now :snfPeter:

Also, did you missed for the last 2 years that USF have side grades?


Only inf units though :snfPeter:


Also, why should USF get stuff for free?
4 Jul 2016, 16:49 PM
#55
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Jul 2016, 16:46 PMDomine


Only inf units though :snfPeter:


Also, why should USF get stuff for free?


Why should schwerer AA be kept free? Why schwerer shouldn't have pop cap, like the officers, making you pay indirectly, regardless if you have use for it or not?

You're trekking a thin ice here :snfPeter:
4 Jul 2016, 16:54 PM
#56
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Jul 2016, 16:46 PMDomine


Only inf units though :snfPeter:


Also, why should USF get stuff for free?


This is a good question, and I completely agree with you.

However, would it be possible for you to create a new forum thread to discuss USF-freebies or All-faction-freebies? Then, everybody that cares about that topic will join you there.

If you read OP's post, I don't think that USF free squads have anything to do with KT truck requirements. Wouldn't you agree?

There is no reason attempting to derail this thread.
(To everybody else that cares about this discussion, stop taking the bait)
4 Jul 2016, 16:55 PM
#57
avatar of Grittle

Posts: 179

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Jul 2016, 16:46 PMDomine


Only inf units though :snfPeter:


Also, why should USF get stuff for free?


Oh man, a free BAR for the LT!!!!!!! WOW SO MUCH

Free Zook for ca- oh wait.

And Major gets a free retreat point, but you do have to pay 150 manpower 15 fuel and 3 pop for the ambulance :^DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
4 Jul 2016, 16:57 PM
#58
avatar of FaHu
Referee Badge
Benefactor 347

Posts: 470 | Subs: 1

If you have to hold all 3 trucks alive a long time to get KT is totally not happening. the effectniss of trucks would be away, because you will never build it anymore outside your base. You go still a risk not to go to far from your base with your structures, if you have never seen how fast those buildings could go down in midgame. Ostheer structures in base, all all others are almost never destroy able if you dont get baseraped hard.
4 Jul 2016, 17:08 PM
#59
avatar of Domine

Posts: 500



This is a good question, and I completely agree with you.

However, would it be possible for you to create a new forum thread to discuss USF-freebies or All-faction-freebies? Then, everybody that cares about that topic will join you there.

If you read OP's post, I don't think that USF free squads have anything to do with KT truck requirements. Wouldn't you agree?

There is no reason attempting to derail this thread.
(To everybody else that cares about this discussion, stop taking the bait)



There is no discussion worth having in this thread. Latch never played a game as any faction other than UKF and he openly stated that Brit emplacement have too many counters.

( 15 + 25 + 15 ) MedHQ + healing
+
( 15 + 50 ) MechanizedHQ
+
( 15 + 120 ) FlakHQ
+
( 310 ) KT
=
565 fuel for kt. Now as if that isn't enough, Latch wants you to DOUBLE any of the sums in this function.


tl;dr fanboys rarely make sense.






Oh man, a free BAR for the LT!!!!!!! WOW SO MUCH

Free Zook for ca- oh wait.

And Major gets a free retreat point, but you do have to pay 150 manpower 15 fuel and 3 pop for the ambulance :^DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD


Yeah, and? Why should LT, Cap and Major be free? Why does USF has to be special snowflake?
4 Jul 2016, 17:26 PM
#60
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3596 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Jul 2016, 17:08 PMDomine



Yeah, and? Why should LT, Cap and Major be free? Why does USF has to be special snowflake?


Cuz they cost popcap. The problem in your argumentation is nobody gives a shit if tomorrow lt/cpt/mjr are not unlocked with tiers anymore. Prices will be adjusted and then you buy them or not, we've seen Cpt get nerfed and nobody really complained about it.
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