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Volks /grens

22 Jun 2016, 15:54 PM
#1
avatar of Intelligence209

Posts: 1124

Volks
Once upgraded, useless at range

Once upgraded, terrible at close combat

From what I see, and experienced first hand, they are completely useless to build now.

Why wasn't a LMG34 introduced instead of tempting to overlap a 4 man squad that does way more damage that comes from the same tier? At least with an LMG34 upgrade the player has the option to not go tier 4 or doctrine. For half ass infantry.

Grens
Still getting insta wiped, still can't stand up to horrids of double LMG USF/UKF that can fire on the move. One member loss is an insta 25% decrease in firepower...

They are only within balance against the soviets...

The units spawning from buildings is stupid..
22 Jun 2016, 16:02 PM
#2
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

Volks
Once upgraded, useless at range

Once upgraded, terrible at close combat

From what I see, and experienced first hand, they are completely useless to build now.

The squad DPS change is 35%(close), 30%(mid), and 11%(far) INCREASE.
You haven't even played the game.


Why wasn't a LMG34 introduced instead of tempting to overlap a 4 man squad that does way more damage that comes from the same tier? At least with an LMG34 upgrade the player has the option to not go tier 4 or doctrine. For half ass infantry.

Because when you have all playerbase complaining about LMG meta, you do NOT add more LMGs.
Volks and spios have completely 2 different dps profiles, that goes for StGs as well.

Grens
Still getting insta wiped, still can't stand up to horrids of double LMG USF/UKF that can fire on the move. One member loss is an insta 25% decrease in firepower...

They are only within balance against the soviets...

The units spawning from buildings is stupid..

The patch goal wasn't suppose to create axis into ubermensh, but to balance the game and lessen squad wipes.

Mines do not wipe squads, its direct gren buff, because you're not losing them anymore.
And CHEAP grens with CHEAP upgrade are NOT meant to win against EXPENSIVE tommies or rifles with expensive dual upgrades. Use HMG, which also was buffed by preventing gunner from being killed first.

Can we conclude your L2P QQ thread no.251 now?
22 Jun 2016, 16:04 PM
#3
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

Volks
Once upgraded, useless at range

Once upgraded, terrible at close combat

From what I see, and experienced first hand, they are completely useless to build now.

Why wasn't a LMG34 introduced instead of tempting to overlap a 4 man squad that does way more damage that comes from the same tier? At least with an LMG34 upgrade the player has the option to not go tier 4 or doctrine. For half ass infantry.

Grens
Still getting insta wiped, still can't stand up to horrids of double LMG USF/UKF that can fire on the move. One member loss is an insta 25% decrease in firepower...

They are only within balance against the soviets...

The units spawning from buildings is stupid..


Look, take a picture and rememeber.

This is how you notice pure bias and whines without playing a game at all. Just bias for bias.
22 Jun 2016, 16:08 PM
#4
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2016, 16:02 PMKatitof

The squad DPS change is 35%(close), 30%(mid), and 11%(far) INCREASE.
You haven't even played the game.


Because when you have all playerbase complaining about LMG meta, you do NOT add more LMGs.
Volks and spios have completely 2 different dps profiles, that goes for StGs as well.


The patch goal wasn't suppose to create axis into ubermensh, but to balance the game and lessen squad wipes.

Mines do not wipe squads, its direct gren buff, because you're not losing them anymore.
And CHEAP grens with CHEAP upgrade are NOT meant to win against EXPENSIVE tommies or rifles with expensive dual upgrades. Use HMG, which also was buffed by preventing gunner from being killed first.

Can we conclude your L2P QQ thread no.251 now?

Kat if we removed bar or Bren or lmg42 for a free 10% increase dps would it be good ?
No because they would lose to every other upgraded unit
You can't think about cost think about like this Stg Should beat 1 bar but not 2 , like a 90 mun 3-4 stg so they beat rifle bar but get stomped by 2 bar or Bren
22 Jun 2016, 16:18 PM
#5
avatar of wake6830

Posts: 17

Played a few OKW matches last night. The volks' disappearing faust bug is awful and sturms are terrible in their new AT role, but my STG-upgraded volks were shredding standard and bar/bren-equipped infantry when used properly. I like that change and, aside from some obvious bugs, the balance patch in general seems promising.
22 Jun 2016, 16:45 PM
#6
avatar of MissCommissar

Posts: 673

I like STG volks, actually, doing their job well at all ranges now. I don't even buy obers for late now, cos... what for? Obers = Penals now, more powerful, but still useless compared to mainline infantry possibilites.

Btw, I liked Schreckvolks more. Entire OKW infantry system was more logicaly correct (volks at, Pios close AI, Obers longrange AI). Now it is mess, Pios are multi-purpoused now, too much multi-purpoused. Pioneers, AT, close AI... Too much for one squad, which is not really spammable. Volks and Obers, as I said, are equial in role (AI infantry), and Volks perform not much worse, than Obers, but they also have AT snare (bugged, but anyway) and survivability.

I would like to see OKW infantry back as it was. Volksblobs were nice for OKW and for those, who played against them, specially when you used against them rocket artillery. Such massacre we lost...

22 Jun 2016, 16:49 PM
#7
avatar of über alles

Posts: 75

STG volks are kinda OP at the start of the game... and it blobs fast as usual
22 Jun 2016, 16:50 PM
#8
avatar of Intelligence209

Posts: 1124

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2016, 16:02 PMKatitof

The squad DPS change is 35%(close), 30%(mid), and 11%(far) INCREASE.
You haven't even played the game.


Because when you have all playerbase complaining about LMG meta, you do NOT add more LMGs.
Volks and spios have completely 2 different dps profiles, that goes for StGs as well.


The patch goal wasn't suppose to create axis into ubermensh, but to balance the game and lessen squad wipes.

Mines do not wipe squads, its direct gren buff, because you're not losing them anymore.
And CHEAP grens with CHEAP upgrade are NOT meant to win against EXPENSIVE tommies or rifles with expensive dual upgrades. Use HMG, which also was buffed by preventing gunner from being killed first.

Can we conclude your L2P QQ thread no.251 now?


Hmm your so right. I haven't played the game. I'm just throwing random shit at a the wall and sees what sticks. Don't mind me I'm just another noob
22 Jun 2016, 16:53 PM
#9
avatar of Intelligence209

Posts: 1124

STG volks are kinda OP at the start of the game... and it blobs fast as usual


I havent really tried that. Usually my muni goes to sweepers and or shrecks.
22 Jun 2016, 18:09 PM
#10
avatar of A. Soldier

Posts: 3094 | Subs: 2

What I propose is the Volks get a remake of their old selves. NCO/Squad leader gets an StG 44 by default, squad gets a close combat package of 4 MP40s, you want long range firepower? No problem, don't upgrade, you want medium such? You got MP40s, an LMG34, the not-shoot on the move one of the Obers is also an option but a lot of people would probably cry about it.

Grens get a 5th model, and sandbags, as should all infantry units if you ask me, buildable cover should be an option for everyone like it was in CoH, not just Volks, Infantry Sections, Rifles with those 2 doctrines and now Wehr's pioneers.

If not then a simple removable of the MG34's requirement of needing another HQ truck on the fucking field would also make sense... as would the removal of the mortar pit as an emplacement which would be made into a defensive position that can garrison mortars instead, and a mobile 3-inch mortar team being added to the Brit tier 1.

For the record, I'm neither an OKW/Axis fanboy or an Allied/Brit one, I like both, I play both, I try to be as unbiased and neutral as possible, people thinking they know how the game would play out if these changes were to be implemented just because they're high level doesn't mean shit, they're players, just simple users, modders know what's up, they are the real people who know how to balance the game properly, this "community" patch sorta proves that as it was made with migerafal (sorry again dude can't spell your name for shite)'s help and that of his mod.

P.S.

No I don't care if this is the balance section and I haven't played competitive or ranked or whatever, I'm still a player of this game for which I've paid and also a modder, and until Relic abandon support for the game like CoH and cease to update it and therefore break pretty much all of the mods, it's pointless making and updating them after every patch, at least for me, I just don't the time but I still would like to come back at some point and play the damn game for which I've paid for without feeling frustrated by bullshit logic.

Looking at you Katikof.
22 Jun 2016, 18:23 PM
#11
avatar of GenObi

Posts: 522

What I propose is the Volks get a remake of their old selves. NCO/Squad leader gets an StG 44 by default, squad gets a close combat package of 4 MP40s, you want long range firepower? No problem, don't upgrade, you want medium such? You got MP40s, an LMG34, the not-shoot on the move one of the Obers is also an option but a lot of people would probably cry about it.

Grens get a 5th model, and sandbags, as should all infantry units if you ask me, buildable cover should be an option for everyone like it was in CoH, not just Volks, Infantry Sections, Rifles with those 2 doctrines and now Wehr's pioneers.

If not then a simple removable of the MG34's requirement of needing another HQ truck on the fucking field would also make sense... as would the removal of the mortar pit as an emplacement which would be made into a defensive position that can garrison mortars instead, and a mobile 3-inch mortar team being added to the Brit tier 1.

For the record, I'm neither an OKW/Axis fanboy or an Allied/Brit one, I like both, I play both, I try to be as unbiased and neutral as possible, people thinking they know how the game would play out if these changes were to be implemented just because they're high level doesn't mean shit, they're players, just simple users, modders know what's up, they are the real people who know how to balance the game properly, this "community" patch sorta proves that as it was made with migerafal (sorry again dude can't spell your name for shite)'s help and that of his mod.

P.S.

No I don't care if this is the balance section and I haven't played competitive or ranked or whatever, I'm still a player of this game for which I've paid and also a modder, and until Relic abandon support for the game like CoH and cease to update it and therefore break pretty much all of the mods, it's pointless making and updating them after every patch, at least for me, I just don't the time but I still would like to come back at some point and play the damn game for which I've paid for without feeling frustrated by bullshit logic.

Looking at you Katikof.


All of this just sounds like a personal problem, I wouldnt blame the game or other people.
22 Jun 2016, 18:36 PM
#12
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 802

TBH, ive really liked the STG upgrade so far, it usually comes before any another other squad upgrades and gives you that upper hand early game however, im really struggling atm when walking into a walls of mg's with 0 counter, no smoke like usf or mortar. its too difficult to walk and throw a flame nade too with the nade range changes
23 Jun 2016, 05:47 AM
#13
avatar of A. Soldier

Posts: 3094 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2016, 18:23 PMGenObi


All of this just sounds like a personal problem, I wouldnt blame the game or other people.


The Volk change is just my opinon.

The Grenadier one is one such opinion of part of the community which I support, due to them being a 4 man mainline infantry squad they get wiped quite often, probably due to both their formations, when in cover and being a 4 man squad in general, as are the Panzergrenadiers and Sturmpioneers, Idk maybe using the Sturmpioneers opened my eyes about these squads' low survivability due to their numbers, I'm absolutely 100% sure I didn't have to replace volks as much as I have to replace Sturmpioneers now due to them having to get wiped as often. But of course OKW has an easy way out of the situation with using the Raketen which can be garrisoned, retreated and even camoed unlike any other AT gun in the game, Wehr doesn't, PaKs will always be slower and have a higher chance to be wiped by other infantry units compared to Panzergrenadiers and cannot be retreated.

As for the cover, I mean, why shouldn't ALL infantry units be able to fill and stack sandbags, ALL Wehr infantry even have voice lines for sandbags.

The removal of the MG34 requirement is my own personal opinion for now as well but considering the patch hasn't been out long enough to piss and frustrate enough people like myself, I think you'll be seeing more of it soon.
23 Jun 2016, 06:11 AM
#14
avatar of Crumbum

Posts: 213

Still praying for 5x mp40 upgrade for volks just like in vcoh :foreveralone:
23 Jun 2016, 10:53 AM
#15
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 760

At the moment VG's are horribly cost ineffective with poor vet and subbar weapon upgrades.
23 Jun 2016, 11:12 AM
#16
avatar of Banillo

Posts: 134

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2016, 16:02 PMKatitof


Because when you have all playerbase complaining about LMG meta, you do NOT add more LMGs.



and then they give us the brits with weapon racks so the sappers can take 2 lmgs plus and third lmg and a flame thrower if needed. while costing 210 mp and having way more dps than pios.

ooooo and if you want to give your allies some more lmgs here is a truck that can drop vickers and piats for your buddys cons and penals

and lets make it so that the rear echelons can have two lms too, why not?



nice way to fix the lmg problem
23 Jun 2016, 11:27 AM
#17
avatar of bicho1

Posts: 168

Volks
Once upgraded, useless at range

Once upgraded, terrible at close combat

From what I see, and experienced first hand, they are completely useless to build now.

Why wasn't a LMG34 introduced instead of tempting to overlap a 4 man squad that does way more damage that comes from the same tier? At least with an LMG34 upgrade the player has the option to not go tier 4 or doctrine. For half ass infantry.

Grens
Still getting insta wiped, still can't stand up to horrids of double LMG USF/UKF that can fire on the move. One member loss is an insta 25% decrease in firepower...

They are only within balance against the soviets...

The units spawning from buildings is stupid..



haaaaa , haaaaaa haaaa

are you ok my freind ?

so you want greens raping from every where ? i am sorry but it will be too op poor usf troops with bars will die every range ?


ofc "Once upgraded, useless at range" like its obvious... [volks get bad at range when upgraded ]
thets my struggle vs greens whille i play usf with bars now you feel me ?

but i will help you ,you got obers or fulshems so its not big of a deal for you
i need to call in air troops with LMGS or cry like i allwayes do

btw when you upgrade rangers or paratroops with tompsons they are useless in range so it heppens i know its new to aixe players ... you guys feel bad when your units arent good at every thing
23 Jun 2016, 17:09 PM
#18
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

What I propose is the Volks get a remake of their old selves. NCO/Squad leader gets an StG 44 by default.


Fun Fact: The Squad Leader StG in CoH1 had almost the same stats as the squad's Kar 98k. Though it appeared to fire in bursts, these were actually just single bullets with 3 tracers, and done at the rate of a bolt action. If I recall, the only stat that was different was the reload rate, so it had an insignificant sustained DPS advantage due to reloading less often.
23 Jun 2016, 17:47 PM
#19
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

The problem with Grens is that, in CoH1 terms, are just 4 man volks squads that can only be upgraded with the LMG that no one ever used. An army based on volks was not a good strategy in CoH1. (You at least needed medic necromancy to turn them into Grens. ;) ) As such, armies based on Grens aren't that strong.

I mean, they're balanced with conscripts.

Panzergrenadiers would've taken the role of CoH1 grenadiers but they come with StGs already which makes them unreliable at range, which drops the burden back down on Grenadiers. It makes me wish the stats and upgrades of panzergrenadiers and stormtroopers were swapped, save for the camo. I'd gladly pay for StGs if I wasn't always forced to close distances with the squad. Once they got their vet and became a bit more durable I could THEN make them take on an assault role.
23 Jun 2016, 18:16 PM
#20
avatar of A. Soldier

Posts: 3094 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jun 2016, 06:11 AMCrumbum
Still praying for 5x mp40 upgrade for volks just like in vcoh :foreveralone:


I already mentioned this, and it was 4x MP40s in CoH, since one of the models, presumably their NCO/Squad leader, had an StG 44.
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