We really cannot even begin to go into more detail than we already have about how grens are not as handicaoped as you wish to believe. Double damage at 0 range is great but counts for not so much when you have to drop models getting there.
Know what else has over double the damage of grens up close? More than, even? Ppsh cons. And they are still not a good unit. You can keep hammering on about them but the numbers just don't stack up and any sort of sensible grenadier play has them preform absolutely fine for their cost.
And you know why you cannot just use Rifles as your counterpoint? Because SOV and UKF exist. If you want a nerf rifles thread please go make it somehwere else and make your argument there.
The MG42 still preforms better than every other equally priced MG and that is the issue at hand in this thread.
OP wanted a price increase on it. I'm still more in favour of putting some much needed polish onto the soviet MG and some sensible vet on the vickers.
That and a rebalance of the various AP rounds in the game.
Comparing unit A to unit B is only half the balance. You need to see USF and ost matchups as a whole. And the USF without a doubt have the advantage. one screw up early game and you likely be driven back to your base thx to the m20 or quad.
So i see no need to change the mg42
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its 2019 and they don't have a single weapon upgrade. every other factions main starting infantry have weapon upgrades. at least give them one dp-28. even if you have to increase there cost. they don't even scale mid game let alone late game.
The main infantry of the soviets is not the conscripts but the penals. The soviets have always been build around commander providing callins or weapon upgrades |
I have to agree. STG44 is a DPS upgrade across all ranges, it comes with a cheap and reliable squad, the weapon does scatter damage as well and cannot be dropped on top of that.
And it's not like unupgraded volks are terrible (like Riflemen). If their alternatives like Obers, Panzerfusiliers etc would get some love in this potential rework I dont see any issue with removing the stg44 upgrade or reducing it from 2 to 1 STGs
Actually VG´s are one of the cost ineffective units in the game. Basic grens do between 25% to 35% more damage with significantly better vet and weapon upgrades and their damage is better rounded. only conscripts perform worse . the STG upgrade is also one of the wort dps upgrades btw. |
I agree that Volksgrenadiers might be too versatile for their cost, including solid AI performance with STGs, having snare and excellent anti-cover and anti-garrison capabilities with flame grenade (not to mention scavenging decrewed team weapons but that's minor). However, I personally don't have much trouble against them if the map doesn't have much shotblockers, so Vickers HMG and UC deal with OKW infantry pushes quite well. I struggle against them on maps like Elst and Statschtudt though but that might be L2p issue.
However, one point I'd like to make is that I absolutely cannot do anything against double ISG. They shred infantry, team weapons and mortar emplacement like paper. If anyone knows what to do against that, I'm all ears.
(should mention that I exclusively play 2v2)
They hold their own but after the allied infantry gets vet and weapon upgrades they just death weight. |
IMO if it got 60 range it'd have to lose cloak too. It's really frustrating when okw players make 2 raketens and just sit like halfway within range and 2 hit your tanks from camo with 0 counterplay. Even if they lost retreat this would probably still be a problem.
There's also the issue of it shooting the ground a lot.
So basically it'd just have to be a pak with a different skin.
You know exactly where they are because they are only so many ways where you can use them.
See a large open field? they are most likely there. |
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I have been away from this game for 1.5 years. And it hits me how bad the OKW´s anti LV abilities are. m20 bren carriers and m3 just run roughshod over them early game. Sure you have counters but they are very expensive . you need 70/60 fuel to deal with units that are 20 fuel.
Volks not scaling properly is also part of the problem. |
Shocks: PPSH
Assualt grenadiers: MP40
Assualt engineers: I don't know but it may be a grease gun.
Try comparing Sturmpioneers to Panzergrenadiers. Both 4 men, both 4 StGs and Pgrens do decent long range damage. They won't be winning against tommy squads that are built to do long range damage, but they'll contribute to a fight even at long range.
Shocks have a 6 man squad smoke and 1.5 armour. Ag's have sprint. And combat engineers are more of an utility unit with access to demo's and flamethrowers.
PG"s or SP's out of cover are just dead. |
Give that long reach to a tank with that armor and speed is crazy
I think it's perfect .
Its perfect at running away. It serves no purpose what so ever. puma's stugs and jp4's outclass it in every . They dont have the staying power to the panther but death enemy's do zero damage. and 2 stugs can turn any allied tank into scrap metal under 10 seconds while the panther need a more then half a minute. |
I´m pretty sure the Ostheer Panzergrenadiere are SS.
It doesn't matter. You where either a SS man or not but most SS divisions never had 100 % ss man simply because of casualties. To keep a SS division at 100 % strength it was not uncommon that other non SS battalions joined the SS Division. |
Why replace? Isn't the better option to just add new unit. Why on earth do you want to reduce diversity in this game. This game already has a small unitbase.
because at this point relic is not going to add a new unit. we only can change the units. |
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