Redesigning USF Crews.

Target weak point stuns, though, so if you can pull it off you usually get the second hit, assuming I recall correctly.

If you hit a teller or regal, regardless, and you pop out, which takes 3 secs, assuming AT gun has to rotate to shoot, you will need to tell the AT gun to fire because it will lose tracking once the crew hits the ground. Then he will crit repair, you will hit it once, then he will jump in and drive off, and you may get a chance to kill it.

Also almost certain TWP cannot be used on abandoned vehicles, but I could be wrong. Either way I think it gives too much freedom to make a mistake here. Mines are nasty for a reason and they just don't feel as intimidating to the USF like they do to every other faction.

Also I hate the animation for crews leaving and getting in tanks: teleport here, then teleport there.

Again this is not some game breaking bug, I just don't like how it currently operates.

If you hit a teller or regal, regardless, and you pop out, which takes 3 secs, assuming AT gun has to rotate to shoot, you will need to tell the AT gun to fire because it will lose tracking once the crew hits the ground.

I think this can be circumvented by using the move-attack order on the vehicle (Q for gridkeys, A for non-grid).

... Besides repair critical* it's too much hustle for little gain.
...

If it too much hassle one can simply replace crew disembark with the version already existing abilities of OKW on Ostheer of self-repair...

If it too much hassle one can simply replace crew disembark with the version already existing abilities of OKW on Ostheer of self-repair...

Crew repair isn't going anywhere nor should it.

USF can jump out and repair crit because its armor is (relative to OKW, OST, UKF, and to a lesser extent, Soviet) pure paper. Its most survivable tank -- the Pershing -- has less armor and the same health as a Panther. And that one can't be decrewed.

Do we really want or need everything from every faction to be the same? To have the exact same strengths and weaknesses? Why even have Americans and Soviets and Germans and Brits when we can just have mirror matches?

It's frustrating to see threads like this and comments like:

Pak and Shreck are irrelevant when comparing the Tanks them selves.

No, they're not. At all. USF armor and AT options are outclassed in all respects by Axis counterparts. Far easier to kill, often w/ less micro required (e.g., drive Panther straight at any US armor and win, drive any US armor straight at Panther and lose).

Taking AT, the health, armor, mobility, and costs of the tanks into the equation, it stands to reason that USF has an ability that allows its armor to survive and get back into the action fairly quickly.

Sheesh you think USF late game is poor now and you want to remove crew repair, lol. Better buff USF early game even more because the faction will have no chance past the 15-20 minute mark w/o survivability buffs to all of its armor, up to and including the Pershing.

Repair crit should take a few seconds time increase to make it more risky to pull off in combat.

Good mine play requires you to have obs and units near your key mine placements. You're supposed to integrate them into your overall plan, not just put them down then forget about them in the hope they'll eventually score you a kill.

If you disagree with proposed changes it is fine. If you want to support your opinion with an argument pls do so but make it an argument that makes sense...
The fact that I posted this thread is evidence that I have an issue with the current use of USF crews, the fact Relic made Persing without a crew indicates they also see some problems with it...

I dont think I need to point out to you the reason why the Pershing crew cannot disembark, its done on purpose so players cannot call off another Pershing upon disembarking the crew so that the heavy limit could not be exploited, not because relic have a problem with disembarking and crew repair as a whole.

What you are proposing to be changed is just not worth the hassle. If it was game breaking perhaps, but its not so leave it.

If it too much hassle one can simply replace crew disembark with the version already existing abilities of OKW on Ostheer of self-repair...

But the point is that it's not just about the repairs but also the xp on the crew.

Make them cheaper to renforce.

...
It's frustrating to see threads like this and comments like:
Pak and Shreck are irrelevant when comparing the Tanks them selves.

No, they're not. At all. USF armor and AT options are outclassed in all respects by Axis counterparts. Far easier to kill, often w/ less micro required (e.g., drive Panther straight at any US armor and win, drive any US armor straight at Panther and lose).
...

That is because you quoted half my response alternating the point...My point is this:
Pak and Shreck are irrelevant when comparing the Tanks them selves. If you want bring other stuff in the debate you should compare the whole faction...

...
USF can jump out and repair crit because its armor is (relative to OKW, OST, UKF, and to a lesser extent, Soviet) pure paper...

No they are not Easy8 is superior to P4 and T34/85 and it can still disembark...even the normal Sherman has become after the patches as cost efficient as the P4...

But the point is that it's not just about the repairs but also the xp on the crew.

I have already suggested that the crew could have a chance of surviving vehicle destruction and then merge to new vehicle transferring some XP...

I will say I would like to see repair crit not work after a mine strike. In that case you should have to fully repair the tank to get the tread/engine back.

Otherwise you are only giving the Wehr player 5 seconds to capitalize on having a well placed mine, and that really is not fair. That is basically the time it takes to turn the pak to face the tank, and may be get a chance to fire once.

just an opinion mate, but if i plant a mine and my enemy step on it with a tank, it has to be a dead tank just because he run over the mine???? if you have there just a pionner squad, usf crew won´t be able to fast repair the tank as usf crew receives more damage while repairing.....and you only need you to kill two models of the USF crew and then stole the tank....

if you plant mines in spots really far of your front line or your units...then the tank will scape with or without fast repair anyway...

just asking, not complaining or refuting your arguments....

is it not fair for you than USF has better repair capabilities while osther or OKW has better AT options and better armor???? if USF lost fast repair, why don´t ask to the pak to lose their TWP or armor osther losing his smoke and blitz as SU don´t have smoke in their tanks??? and maybe USF should lose raks, because osther don´t have them, and osther should have to go to their base to order a LMG for their greens because other factions has to go back to base to pick weapons????

why don´t give to USF a repair bunker as OKW has when teching???? or why we don´t give OST a squad like usf gets when teching????

is this really a balance problem????

Redesign means some buffs, but I can see only nerfs. Probably, I have just missed +60 frontal armor for Sherman

It seems that the thread is going of truck so I try to bring it back.

When USF was released they had stronger infantry, stronger light vehicle play and weaker medium armor that relied on gimmicks rather than stats. Currently USF still have stronger infantry and light vehicles but the gap in medium tanks has closed considerably so the gimmicks can also be toned down.


1) Repair critical ability, is currently over-performing compared even to doctrinal abilities. It should be more expensive take longer or removed completely from crew and stay for units like assault eng. At snare have been nerfed, USF have access to better mines, so the balance has changed...

2) Vehicles crew feature can be used for bypassing pop limit need to change

3) Vehicles crew feature can be used can be used to bypass upkeep especially for support units like Calliope, Priest, AA breaks a core game design need to changes.

4) Vehicles crew feature can be used for vehicle transfer across player and faction giving access even to doctrinal units breaking commander balance needs to change.

5)Vehicles crew feature can be used for training infantry breaking XP gain needs to change.

There can be other mechanism allowing vehicles to repair on their own if it is needed or ways retaining some XP for vehicles crew. The current system though imo is not working as intended.

Cool, except you're completely wrong again.

Only doctrinal armor was buffed meaningfully, stock armor is mostly unchanged, sherman got pen buff, because it didn't made much sense that tank which needed to switch ammo had its AT shells as "strong" as tanks that didn't needed to choose between AI or AT.

Moreover, Ost armor and AT capabilities got also buffed with the stug as well as OKW can field almost 50% more tanks then they used to, more shrecks then they could ever dream off and OKW P4 is not only stock now, it can reach KV-1 armor values with armor bulletins.

If you see exclusively USF armor, sure they were buffed.

If you take into account changes to the whole game, USF armor was never weaker then it is now.

Cool, except you're completely wrong again.

Only doctrinal armor was buffed meaningfully, stock armor is mostly unchanged, sherman got pen buff, because it didn't made much sense that tank which needed to switch ammo had its AT shells as "strong" as tanks that didn't needed to choose between AI or AT.
...

Actually you are wrong and off topic. I explained 5 different problems that derived from the current vehicles crew implementation and you are trying to derail the issue with pointless debates...and you are wrong in your claims. PLS be on topic or stay out.

[you are wrong because:
1)Sherman does not have to change shells, its AP round where as good if not better than P4 rounds as AI and it is even better as AT. HE was an option to make it extremely lethal vs AI its not like ISU-152 with specialized AP/HE rounds. Switchable round for Sherman is not disadvantage as you are trying to present it an option in the worst case scenario or bonus in the best...
2)getting more penetration in the main gun is meaningfully buff
3) what you write as explanation for the penetration buff does not actually "make much sense", at least to me...]

Crew repair isn't going anywhere nor should it.

USF can jump out and repair crit because its armor is (relative to OKW, OST, UKF, and to a lesser extent, Soviet) pure paper. Its most survivable tank -- the Pershing -- has less armor and the same health as a Panther. And that one can't be decrewed.

Do we really want or need everything from every faction to be the same? To have the exact same strengths and weaknesses? Why even have Americans and Soviets and Germans and Brits when we can just have mirror matches?

It's frustrating to see threads like this and comments like:


No, they're not. At all. USF armor and AT options are outclassed in all respects by Axis counterparts. Far easier to kill, often w/ less micro required (e.g., drive Panther straight at any US armor and win, drive any US armor straight at Panther and lose).

Taking AT, the health, armor, mobility, and costs of the tanks into the equation, it stands to reason that USF has an ability that allows its armor to survive and get back into the action fairly quickly.

Sheesh you think USF late game is poor now and you want to remove crew repair, lol. Better buff USF early game even more because the faction will have no chance past the 15-20 minute mark w/o survivability buffs to all of its armor, up to and including the Pershing.

You make a good point that the US tanks are weaker than other factions' late-game tanks and therefore should have some other sort of advantage. I can agree with that.

I'd rather the advantage wasn't crit-repair though. If an M20 mine can totally disable a panther, which is then helpless, I think a Sherman should not be able to magically undo engine damage if it has gone too deep without support.

Also, Shermans are much cheaper than panthers. So the "drive straight at 'em" argument seems a bit flawed.

Tbh I think the ability to decrew and reduce popcap is already enough of an advantage so the insta-superglue repair seems superfluous.

I have already suggested that the crew could have a chance of surviving vehicle destruction and then merge to new vehicle transferring some XP...

And this is where my post "First of all, whenever you think of a suggestion, take into account the possibility of it been implemented on the game. Besides repair critical* it's too much hustle for little gain. "

You are asking for 2 new mechanics to be programmed, for a completely game redesign which goes against what Relic had in mind and set it for granted.
On top of that, you need to check for every single vehicle and test that it works.

just an opinion mate, but if i plant a mine and my enemy step on it with a tank, it has to be a dead tank just because he run over the mine???? if you have there just a pionner squad, usf crew won´t be able to fast repair the tank as usf crew receives more damage while repairing.....and you only need you to kill two models of the USF crew and then stole the tank....

if you plant mines in spots really far of your front line or your units...then the tank will scape with or without fast repair anyway...

just asking, not complaining or refuting your arguments....

is it not fair for you than USF has better repair capabilities while osther or OKW has better AT options and better armor???? if USF lost fast repair, why don´t ask to the pak to lose their TWP or armor osther losing his smoke and blitz as SU don´t have smoke in their tanks??? and maybe USF should lose raks, because osther don´t have them, and osther should have to go to their base to order a LMG for their greens because other factions has to go back to base to pick weapons????

why don´t give to USF a repair bunker as OKW has when teching???? or why we don´t give OST a squad like usf gets when teching????

is this really a balance problem????

If a player runs over a mine it should be punishing, against USF it is not very punishing right now.

Indeed you need only kill two models, but often mines are planted on flanks to protect vulnerable weapon teams, often without a weapon team directly looking at the mine (that's the point of the mine). I would rather see the crews receive a higher repair speed and the loss of repair critical. This makes it more consistent across factions, but retains USF differences.

Also I have asked that Pak40 loses TWP, I do want Ost smoke to change (though I doubt it will now), and weapon racks are a bit beside the point but I have suggested American should be able to purchase weapons on squads.

I am not trying to make the factions the same, only that powerful tools used well retain power against all factions. USF should be required to use sweepers like everybody else.

And this is where my post "First of all, whenever you think of a suggestion, take into account the possibility of it been implemented on the game. Besides repair critical* it's too much hustle for little gain. "

You are asking for 2 new mechanics to be programmed, for a completely game redesign which goes against what Relic had in mind and set it for granted.
On top of that, you need to check for every single vehicle and test that it works.

Surviving vehicle destruction is already in game...when transporters get destroyed and they have passengers they take damage...

Auto repair is already in game...OKW have it, Soviets have it, UKf have it.

In the end of they if it is too much trouble, completely remove crews and adjust price or stats or pop cap if needed...

Surviving vehicle destruction is already in game...when transporters get destroyed and they have passengers they take damage...

Auto repair is already in game...OKW have it, Soviets have it, UKf have it.

In the end of they if it is too much trouble, completely remove crews and adjust price or stats or pop cap if needed...

1-I'm not sure if both mechanics are equal. When destroyed they don't take damage, there's a 50% crit for each model to completely die on top of the damage coming at them. While inside they also take damage as if they were in a bunker.
Again: you have to take every single USF vehicle besides Pershing and give them a new deathcrit and see if it works. Change how USF recrews vehicles.

2-I was not talking about auto repair which can be easily solved. I was talking about crew experience.

3-The point is, there's no need to adjust price, stats or popcap.