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[AXIS] [All modes] [PIV should be on par with Ez8/t3485]

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28 Sep 2015, 00:21 AM
#121
avatar of atouba

Posts: 482

give it 25 more pen all ranges, problem solved.

Agreed. Or change nothing but reduce the fuel cost to 110 fuel.
28 Sep 2015, 00:24 AM
#122
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470

most med vs med tank battles come down to RNG. just because it costs more doesn't mean it always wins. what you're paying for with the IV is better armour than the other mediums, good AT/AI in the same gun, and krupp steel.
28 Sep 2015, 06:58 AM
#123
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1



Well considering you can get more Zooks than Shreks now with the munitions change, can get AT mines are you basic infantry unit, and pretty much every USF tank now comes with decent penetration (with more on the way) I think we can finally put the meme of "USF has no good AT" to rest.

Bottom line the PIV has no justification for it's current cost in the context of the prohibitive teching required for it in a 1v1 or 2v2 scenario. Either bring the cost down or give it some better pen or scatter to make it worth the cost more.

My suggestion in the change in cost since the Cromwell is basically just a PIV just put it at 115 and put the OKW PIV at 125.


USF has worst AT than Oshteer, what's wrong with that? Didn't see any stuglike at 80 fuel in the USF arsenal so far.
UKF has no snare to help the cromwell in the fight.

Reducing the Fuel price will simply put the Pz4 on the field faster than any counter part. It is why the sherman has been buffed in first hand. Both unit are hitting the field around the same time today.
28 Sep 2015, 08:01 AM
#124
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2015, 06:58 AMEsxile
Reducing the Fuel price will simply put the Pz4 on the field faster than any counter part. It is why the sherman has been buffed in first hand. Both unit are hitting the field around the same time today.


Actually a rushed Panzer IV (no light vehicles) will hit the field a bit later than any other faction's stock medium tank. Ostheer and OKW have to spend the most fuel to get their first Medium Tank (315 / 382 (equivalent cost) respectively). Soviets followed by Ostheer spent the most necessary Manpower to get their first Medium Tank (1310 / 1260 respectively). Soviet medics and medic bunker are included in the Manpower costs.
28 Sep 2015, 08:38 AM
#125
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

Ostheer Pz4 hits the field at 190 investment in structures (T1+T2+T3) + 125 Pz4 fuel
Sherman hits the field at 200 in structure (T1+T3+ ambulance + Bar/zook) + 110 sherman fuel.
Now add T2 instead of T1 and USF is 210
Add grenades and we are at 225 fuel for T1 and 235 fuel for T2 start.

Now before someone says USF upgrades are optional. If your USF opponent can rush a sherman without ambulance + bar or + grenade or all of them, you probably deserve to lose anyway.
28 Sep 2015, 10:17 AM
#126
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

I want the t34/76 to be on par with a panther


And I want a Panther be on par with a churchill :D.
28 Sep 2015, 10:48 AM
#127
avatar of dreamerdude
Benefactor 392

Posts: 374

P4 is a good everything unit, it is a Jack of all trades, master of none. it's a really good and cheap unit to add to your army, and it is the only tank i've played to have the most utility.
Why would one want it changed i have no idea, but hey its there and it does things, and those things i like.
for games everyone is all for the panther or the sturmpanzer, and for real. they are only good at one or the other, when i have a couple P4 that can equally do what both of them do but earlier.
28 Sep 2015, 11:01 AM
#128
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

most med vs med tank battles come down to RNG. just because it costs more doesn't mean it always wins. what you're paying for with the IV is better armour than the other mediums, good AT/AI in the same gun, and krupp steel.


Crocodile and AVRE cost less then a Panther but will everything #Logic
28 Sep 2015, 11:05 AM
#129
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 770

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2015, 08:38 AMEsxile
Ostheer Pz4 hits the field at 190 investment in structures (T1+T2+T3) + 125 Pz4 fuel
Sherman hits the field at 200 in structure (T1+T3+ ambulance + Bar/zook) + 110 sherman fuel.
Now add T2 instead of T1 and USF is 210
Add grenades and we are at 225 fuel for T1 and 235 fuel for T2 start.

Now before someone says USF upgrades are optional. If your USF opponent can rush a sherman without ambulance + bar or + grenade or all of them, you probably deserve to lose anyway.


Lets ignore the much stronger usf early game and high mp cost for ost teching.

I vote for 110 fuel on this one. 120 for the okw version.
28 Sep 2015, 11:36 AM
#130
avatar of bert69

Posts: 150

P4 comes at the same time as a sherman currently, with ~2 pak gun support, any price decrease/ stat increase will damage this balance. Furthermore, its a generalist tank, meaning its supposed to be a soft counter to everything. You want AI tank? Ostwind. You want AT tank? Stug G.
I'm beginning to think you make posts and balance suggestions when you don't even know gameplay basics.
28 Sep 2015, 11:46 AM
#131
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

I'd vote for the same price but increased armour penetration. So that it can penetrate heavier tanks a bit more reliant.
28 Sep 2015, 12:32 PM
#132
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2015, 11:05 AMZyllen


Lets ignore the much stronger usf early game and high mp cost for ost teching.

I vote for 110 fuel on this one. 120 for the okw version.


Should we ignore the much stronger Ostheer late game? Doesn't sound like an argument to me.
28 Sep 2015, 12:46 PM
#133
avatar of Nabarxos

Posts: 392

I'd vote for the same price but increased armour penetration. So that it can penetrate heavier tanks a bit more reliant.

yea lets make the panzer 4 able to penetrate IS-2 frontal armor:foreveralone:
28 Sep 2015, 12:48 PM
#134
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

I don't say that they need to penetrate IS-2 front armour. But it only penetrates 1 out of 10 shots in the rear armour. Even had 1 game with 4 Pz4's (Ostheer) firing on it's rear armour. I lost all my Pz4's and he still had his IS-2. So penetration it needs ;)
28 Sep 2015, 13:12 PM
#135
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

I don't say that they need to penetrate IS-2 front armour. But it only penetrates 1 out of 10 shots in the rear armour. Even had 1 game with 4 Pz4's (Ostheer) firing on it's rear armour. I lost all my Pz4's and he still had his IS-2. So penetration it needs ;)


If you need penetration, you build a stug, no?
28 Sep 2015, 13:18 PM
#136
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

what if you like the manouvrability and the turret of the Pz4? Even Stug bounces way too often from it
28 Sep 2015, 14:01 PM
#137
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 770

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2015, 12:32 PMEsxile


Should we ignore the much stronger Ostheer late game? Doesn't sound like an argument to me.


You means slightly stronger late game. the buffs to the rifle vet and jackson is really paying of.
And yes late game strength is something i also calculate. But the fact doesnt change that the p4 is a bit cost ineffective.
28 Sep 2015, 14:04 PM
#138
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 770

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2015, 11:36 AMbert69
P4 comes at the same time as a sherman currently, with ~2 pak gun support, any price decrease/ stat increase will damage this balance. Furthermore, its a generalist tank, meaning its supposed to be a soft counter to everything. You want AI tank? Ostwind. You want AT tank? Stug G.
I'm beginning to think you make posts and balance suggestions when you don't even know gameplay basics.


is their some cheat or something that allows players to have unending mp?
28 Sep 2015, 14:08 PM
#139
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17909 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2015, 14:04 PMZyllen


is their some cheat or something that allows players to have unending mp?


Yes.
Press F1 and H at the start of the game.

Then, when you're about to lose a squad or are facing superior force you can press T.

Both of these little tricks allow you to save tremendous amounts of menpower against USF.
28 Sep 2015, 14:19 PM
#140
avatar of bert69

Posts: 150

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2015, 14:04 PMZyllen


is their some cheat or something that allows players to have unending mp?

Is there some cheat or something that allows players to have a brain?
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