russian armor

I understand why CIS countrys hate single player campaign

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21 Apr 2014, 13:43 PM
avatar of HappyPhace

Posts: 309

War, war never changes.
The Romans waged war to gather slaves and wealth...
Spain build an empire from its lust for gold and territory...
Hitler shaped a battered germany into an economic superpower...
but war
war never changes...

"War has changed." - Solid Snake

21 Apr 2014, 15:11 PM
avatar of coffee111

Posts: 49

I agree that the campaign is stupid and boring. Maybe that's why Relic just decided to skip the campaign in Western Front.
21 Apr 2014, 15:27 PM
avatar of Phy

Posts: 509 | Subs: 1

I'm not from Russia, not even necessary to be borm there to understand that singleplayer is just one of the most anticomunist pseudohistorical propaganda. The history information of what probably Relic reviewed is two american antisoviet films without any accurate history research. I do not know if its conscient anticomunist propaganda or not, but the way they relate the history is disturbing.

But what did you expect guys? It's the new ERA, as Fukushima said: "history is dead" and bourgeoisie is rewriting it -he forgot about that-.

PD: USA let the fascist spanish dictatorshit exist during 40 years just because they, as all nazis, hated comunists. Tactics alliance for the win! The longest fascist dictatorshit of the history, nice gift USA to my country.

PD2: Those who say CCCP=III Reich you're just history and politic ignorants. Just read a few books instead of propaganda and then speak.
21 Apr 2014, 15:31 PM
avatar of Neffarion

Posts: 458

Because its tryin to act cool and say "hey! we are independent ! we can say true about evil soviet dictatorshit"
well I played campaign and its not even close to independent research of history
its just some type of cold war trolling based on enemyatthe gates movies
relic suck

if you think campaign is very hard to take because you think its not that cruel then let me just give you a link that has all the truth behind all the bullshit they teach on school and on the tv
just from the part that Josef Stalin made his people EAT children because of starvation is just horrendous
Stalin focused video
21 Apr 2014, 15:45 PM
avatar of Sarantini
Honorary Member Badge
Donator 22

Posts: 2181

lol is that a satire site?
21 Apr 2014, 15:49 PM
avatar of Neffarion

Posts: 458

lol is that a satire site?

The site has a film - 27 parts (divided) if you don't believe go and watch, then decide
21 Apr 2014, 15:51 PM
avatar of Zupadupadude

Posts: 617

The site has a film - 27 parts (divided) if you don't believe go and watch, then decide

I like how the quote in the beginning of the movie that automatically plays is from this conspiracy theory bullshit site.
21 Apr 2014, 16:02 PM
avatar of Neffarion

Posts: 458

I like how the quote in the beginning of the movie that automatically plays is from this conspiracy theory bullshit site.

If you really want to keep telling it is bullshit, then watch, ignorance is hard to take from you.
All the evidence is on part 26 of the film
Condemnation without investigation is the height of Ignorance.
21 Apr 2014, 16:14 PM
avatar of ATCF
Donator 33

Posts: 587

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Apr 2014, 12:27 PMBurts
well, i'm not denying soviet warcrimes, but all i can say, i understand why the campaign angers some people.
It shows soviet warcrimes and doesn't show any german war crimes. That's the problem.

Oh, and the ending was simply an insult to everyone who fought in WW2. You know where he says
"millions died to raise that flag.. all those graves, for a photograph". Whoever wrote this is horrible.

If it doesnt show any German war crimes, then who killed the soviet POW´s in the prison camp (in the mission where you get the ISU-152 during summer)
21 Apr 2014, 17:04 PM
avatar of TensaiOni

Posts: 198

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Apr 2014, 16:14 PMATCF

If it doesnt show any German war crimes, then who killed the soviet POW´s in the prison camp (in the mission where you get the ISU-152 during summer)

10th mission, "Lublin"? It wasn't a PoW camp, it was a Nazi concentration camp - maybe not strictly an example of war crimes, but actually something even worse.

Of course, some people might have been raging too hard from previous missions to even notice this.
21 Apr 2014, 19:02 PM
avatar of Jinseual

Posts: 598

With all this is effect, were talking about the pink elephant here. Relic over did the campaign, they were literally beating the dead horse. They focused purely on bad things rather then the high amount of badasses in the war.

Literally every mission was just soviets doing bad things and made the Germans like saints.

Now which coh2 mission does it show German soldiers as saints? The guy raising his up begging for mercy or the guys running away getting their backs shot at?

I can't agree with some of the things you said after that as well.
21 Apr 2014, 19:08 PM
avatar of Chaotic

Posts: 30

It's always amazing to see history discussions on this forum; people seem to forget that the game is, above all, a work of fiction. Gameplay > Realism, as they used to say on the GR.org ;)

That being said, ...
Warning: wall of text!

TL;DR: IMO the best thing to do about the campain is to disregard the whole thing altogether, or, at least, to treat it like some bad fiction about the war - which it inescapeably is.

P.S.: I should mention that I am Russian :) There is no denying to all the terrible stuff that the Soviet Union did: the war crimes in Germany, the collectivisation, the forced relocation, the gulags - history has some really, really dark pages here.

It's just really disappointing to see the worst of what happened selected and applied to everybody. Especially when it comes in context with the very neat, civilized and white-washed WW2-era Germans.
21 Apr 2014, 23:32 PM
avatar of DietBrownie

Posts: 308

Now which coh2 mission does it show German soldiers as saints? The guy raising his up begging for mercy or the guys running away getting their backs shot at?

I can't agree with some of the things you said after that as well.

Like I said, soldiers who attempted to surrender got shot like that in all nations. Honestly Jin, besides invading the country, what bad did things did the Germans do in the campaign.
22 Apr 2014, 00:38 AM
avatar of Hypnotoad

Posts: 107

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Apr 2014, 06:56 AMrejfor

Ehm... Okay, I'll just replace "German" with "Soviet" :3

Estimates of total deaths of Soviet civilians have ranged from 13.7 million to a maximum of 22.1 million persons. The death toll also includes the forced labor of Soviets (2.1 million) in Germany."

The Germans were horrific in their treatment of Soviets during the war. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_of_the_Wehrmacht This includes the complete genocide of all Jews who lived in occupied territories of USSR...

Note number of casualties and compare to Germans. I don't know why all of you don't like to remember about HUGE Soviet losses but whine about German losses. Cold War, huh?

Also Soviets couldn't genocide anyone just because of their ideology. It's complete bullshit. They killed for anything but not for race or nationality.

About COH2 campaign. There was a great German campaign in COH - OF without any rubbish about evil Nazis. And we get COH2 campaign after that. Shame on Relic script writers.

True. But the Germans recognize and remember what was done in their name.

What do Russian children learn about the criminality of the Soviet Union? What do they learn about the Holodomor that cost tens of millions of innocent Ukrainians their lives?

That's the difference.

And your assertion that Soviet Russia never committed actions of Racial Genocide is undeniably false.
The aformentioned Holodomor was an attempt to wipe out the Ukrainian people to pave the way for the collectivisation of their land. Then you have the deportation of the Tatars, the Chechens and the Estonians amongst countless other peoples.

You Russians replaced the Gestapo with the KGB, the Concentration Camp with the Gulag and Fascism with Socialism.

You people are no better than the Nazis.
22 Apr 2014, 01:34 AM
avatar of WiFiDi
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 3293

True. But the Germans recognize and remember what was done in their name.

if they had won the war it would be a very different story. if they were not defeated/surrendered i doubt this would be the case. ;)

History is written by the victor. -Unknown

please try to keep name calling accusations/racist remarks out of this. it has nothing to do with this topic. last i checked no one (likely,) here is old enough to have actually fought lived during/in/through the early/mid 1900's.

if you want to discuss/debate history do so with facts/sources not name calling. :)
22 Apr 2014, 02:21 AM
avatar of eebies

Posts: 67

The biggest problem is the discrepancy between the storytelling of the campaign of Company of Heroes 2 and the campaigns of the Germans in Opposing Fronts. Almost all of the shitty things that happened in the Soviet campaign actually happened (NKVD Blocking Units for one, early desperate human wave attacks, the complete abandonment of the Soviet 2nd Shock Army), but the game disingenuously places all of these disparate events into one package as if it were the totality of the war experience for the Red Army and its soldiers.

It would be akin to having a German campaign revisit all the different village burnings, partisan "hunts," civilian massacres, etc. that happened throughout the war by many different units and package it as a single experience. But Relic didn't do that. Instead, their German campaign was clean as a whistle. It's the two-facedness of the treatments of the Red Army vs. the Germans that is so upsetting. Why not give the Soviets the same even-handed treatment that the Germans were given? I don't think anyone is looking for the demonization of the Germans, simply the same consideration given to the Soviets.

I think it's an issue that's obviously deep-rooted in the politics of the Cold War era. It's been in the popular zeitgeist for quite a long time for people to whitewash the Germans' crimes in World War Two (see: the "clean Wehrmacht" revisionism), while this has never been the case with the Soviets. It absolutely did not need to be this way, but let's face it: Relic is simply appeasing the public's tastes and preconceptions. It's not been in vogue for a long time to paint all Germans with a single Nazi brush, so the Opposing Fronts campaigns were well received by their audience (mostly Americans and Western Europeans). However there hasn't been a turn in the public zeitgeist against the portrayals of the Soviets as thuggish, overly-ideological, incompetent brutes. The Germans are familiar; they are the allies of the Western world... but the Soviets are the other. They are in the outgroup as opposed to the modern western powers ingroup, and negativity always sticks harder to those in the outgroup.

Nobody wants to be the other, painted with the same brush that people become so up in arms about when all German soldiers are painted with it.
22 Apr 2014, 04:02 AM
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4507

Well it doesn't help that the Soviet Government remained. Germany lost, with the Nazis gone, people could speak their minds, and it was obvious then most of them were not in support of the Nazis, but against them. The Soviets on the other hand, could not speak out for fear of reprisal from the Soviet Government, which was now stronger and wider-reaching than ever. So our overall picture of the Soviets is similar to WW2 Germany; unanimous and zealous support of the Government, because they were not free to tell us otherwise.

Of course, it does not help that immediately following WW2, Stalin started installing puppet governments in captured states rather than withdraw the Red Army like he'd been asked. Then the talks stopped, and Stalin took his new states and hid behind his iron curtain. The Soviets chose to be separated from Europe, Western leaders were increasingly concerned about this and it became clear to them that it wasn't going to stop. The Soviets continued this secrecy until the Chernobyl disaster forced them to break silence, and later Perestroika and Glasnost.
22 Apr 2014, 08:04 AM
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 807

and made the Germans like saints.

Found not such thing into the campaign :unsure:

As for other nations being evil and the Soviets were just as bad as the Nazis. It's true to an extent. Hitler was the man who started the war.

Well, it is commonly known that if Hitler didn't make the first step, one year later Stalin would have begin his own campaign towards western countries. All history it's full of soviet atempts to esxtend their territories before WW2, after WW2 and, let's not forget, the present days.

Of course the Soviet Soldiers did awful acts to Germans. They wanted revenge for the suffering they caused to their country. For the Russian members here, they did these things to Germans. There is no denying it. There is overwhelming evidence, but they had their reasons.

Unfortunatelly, soviets didn't do awful acts just ot Germans, but almost to all countries they put their boot in. If there are on this forum Polish, Hungarian, Romanians, Cechs and others, they know for sure what I mean.

As for America and Churchill, name a single war where citizens weren't killed? Am I saying they were the white knights of the war. Hell no. They wanted to end the war just as fast as they can and limit the amount of civilian casualties. Were Americans and Brittish complete madmen who were known for going into cities, taking civilians and putting them to into death camps or killing people because of skin color. There may be a few but no where near as the Nazis and Soviets. Welcome to war, it's awful.

Dresden bombardement after German surrendered. Hiroshima and Nagasaki atomic bombs. And so on.....

In other words, war is awful, and brings the worst out of people. No matter what nation. People will sacrifice good things to end it as fast as possible.

22 Apr 2014, 10:59 AM
avatar of Cardboard Tank

Posts: 931

I personally didn´t see an insulting characterization of the regular Russian soldier in the campaign. Rather my impression was that the communist system was depicted as nasty - which it was. The soldiers try to heroically safe their Commander and the narrator is seen as a conscientious person. The evil things are ordered and done by the Commissars, representing the system.
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