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Isn't the UKF Commando's camouflage ability a bit excessive?

10 Jul 2022, 16:06 PM
#21
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13270 | Subs: 1


they are type of commandos. One is airdrop from griller and onther jump out of building. First one doesnt have suprise element and both of them are expensive (390 mp]. second one nerfed from 4 to 5 and gamon bomb need to cooldown.

Cost of commandos is:
350 to build
320 to spawn (+70 = 390 total cost)
390 to drop + building/reinforcement point


Light gammon bomd are not on CD if one uses glider it is needed for "infiltration" commandos but that is common to all units of the type.


Not to mention their stealth power nerfed last patch. And again, you can do ambush bundle nade with Strormtrooper without upgrade MP40 just like them. They are working as intended. Stop Crying weabraboos.

Stormtroppers do not have access to a bundle grenade they have incendiary instead that does start in CD.

I am not sure what nerf to "stealth power" "or from 4 to 5" you referring to (or if they even exist).
10 Jul 2022, 16:25 PM
#22
avatar of rumartinez89

Posts: 582

On the Allied side, Yes they have the best camo but they come in overall worse faction and commanders. I would take a lot of the other SMG squads over them.

Airborne guards have worse camo, but are 6 man and on the move PPSH are better than Sten. If you don’t need PPSH or camo you can get Triple DP which are an amazing upgrade. Both Terror Tactics and Airborne are great commanders for their respective modes.

Paratroopers with Thompsons have no cover but are significantly stronger at base and if you catch a unit with tactical advance it will be wiped. Same goes for stormtrooper.

I would put them slightly ahead of AssGuards since they come in fairly average to mediocre commander but Soviets are a better faction.

Rangers have less utility but the commanders they come in are fairly good overall.
10 Jul 2022, 16:29 PM
#23
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1483

Outside of 1v1s and some cheeky waiting game, I've never seen a gammon bomb in cover invis play. Mainly because:
1) Brits suck
2) Commandos are quite niche
3) Outside of 1v1s, they don't have much uses

Definitely not as strong as the G43 Pgrens with invis from Jaeger infantry doctrine. You don't even need a bundle to wipe units with G43 Pgrens.

Not only that, but they are in a faction which is horribly underpowered, mainly from the horrible design.

Whether it was an oversight or not, they don't need buffs nor nerfs.
10 Jul 2022, 16:52 PM
#24
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1217

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jul 2022, 16:06 PMVipper


I am not sure what nerf to "stealth power" "or from 4 to 5" you referring to (or if they even exist).


Maybe it is the detection range, commando get detected at 5m while stormtrooper get detected from 4m. Im not sure it was patched recently or has been allway like so, tho.
10 Jul 2022, 17:19 PM
#25
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13270 | Subs: 1



Maybe it is the detection range, commando get detected at 5m while stormtrooper get detected from 4m. Im not sure it was patched recently or has been allway like so, tho.

According to patch log there are no nerfs to commandos stealth.

On the other hand certain user have a tendency to come up with "nerf of the mod team" that do not really exist.
10 Jul 2022, 18:57 PM
#26
avatar of Grim

Posts: 1051

A UKF nerf. Marvellous.

Jarvis, pull up commander pick rate and UKF winrate.
10 Jul 2022, 21:58 PM
#27
avatar of adamírcz

Posts: 935

The cloak? No. Strong, but not OP

The ability to toss a gammon right out of cloak? Yeah, thats kinda busted

If an MG or AT crew is clumped it is a 100% guaranteed decrew even if the opponent clicks retreat the exact moment the nade is tossed

10 Jul 2022, 22:47 PM
#28
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 643

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jul 2022, 14:21 PMAlphrum
When stormtroopers were given the mp44 upgrade, they also replaced the bundle grenade on them as it was seen giving a unit with high cqc close range damage with stealth plus a powerful grenade would lead to frustrating wipes with the opposing player given no time to react.


Storm Troopers are criminally underpowered. I am not saying they should have stealth grenades but Storm Troopers as a doctrinal call in suck ass compared to things like Fallschirmjägers, Panzerfusiliers, JLI, Shock Troops and Paratroopers. Easily the worst infantry call in besides Partisans.

They need a rework for sure, even if they had to cost 400 manpower with 100 Ammo Upgrade, I would like to see StormTroopers given some love and have alternatives to just making 4 Grenadiers to counter all allied infantry.


13 Jul 2022, 17:43 PM
#29
avatar of DerKuhlmann

Posts: 453

I once said, why can´t falls have same camo as commandoes.
Then i got answered dropping a grenade from moving stealth is overpowered.
Yet commandoes can do it anyway.
14 Jul 2022, 10:41 AM
#30
avatar of rumartinez89

Posts: 582

I once said, why can´t falls have same camo as commandoes.
Then i got answered dropping a grenade from moving stealth is overpowered.
Yet commandoes can do it anyway.


You can't compare the two squads and want the same abilities for both just because they can both cloak. While the commandos nade is bullshit, Falls are pretty much better at every range past 10. Commandos max DPS(92) quickly drops to about 37DPS at range 15 and is almost nonexistent past range 20 like all other SMG squads. Falls do quite a bit less up close around 74DPS but hold on to their damage extremely well with 62DPS at mid and around 38DPS at far. If they got a bundled nade/similar moving stealth they would be the strongest unit inf unit in the game.

They really only have 1 real weakness, a 4 man squad with evenly distributed DPS, so any models drops cause a massive 25% DPS drop compared to Obers which have 70% of their DPS contained in one models.

VET3 Serelia info was used for comparions.
14 Jul 2022, 14:06 PM
#31
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2868 | Subs: 2



Storm Troopers are criminally underpowered. I am not saying they should have stealth grenades but Storm Troopers as a doctrinal call in suck ass compared to things like Fallschirmjägers, Panzerfusiliers, JLI, Shock Troops and Paratroopers. Easily the worst infantry call in besides Partisans.

They need a rework for sure, even if they had to cost 400 manpower with 100 Ammo Upgrade, I would like to see StormTroopers given some love and have alternatives to just making 4 Grenadiers to counter all allied infantry.

I find Stormtroopers quite good. They're not the type of unit you'd buy 2 of, but they do deal heavy even without tactical advance. This ability roughly doubles their DPS and gives them also a bit more middle range DPS, although it obviously is a muni dump even if it is not super expensive. We also shouldn't forget that they cost 1 less population. If you normalize DPS to population cost, they are equal to slightly better than commandos.

They definitely have their weaknesses, also compared to commandos, but calling them "criminally underpowered" ist quite a hyperbole.

Regarding the light gammon bomb on them I am divided. It is stupid to have little counter play involved. On the other hand UKF already lacks burst damage via indirect so that moving this potential to some infantry squads might actually be reasonable. Overall the light gammon bomb of commandos should probably get replaced by something else. At the very least by a standard grenade in exchange for a small price buff.
20 Jul 2022, 16:17 PM
#32
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 643


I find Stormtroopers quite good. They're not the type of unit you'd buy 2 of


This is why they should be remade or improved. Literally every other infantry call in ability within the game you wouldn't mind having an extra one or two, wether its Shock Troops, Commandos, Paratroopers, JLI, Fallshirmjagers, every faction can benefit from having extra call in units.

Stormtroopers are not better than the stock option which is the problem. Grenadiers are just too good that you don't need anything else except more grenadiers which is why 4 Grenadiers and Spotting Scopes is basically the current meta for Whermacht. Since Grenadiers are better at anti-infantry and Panzer Grenadiers are better at anti-tank than StormTroopers there is literally no point to Storm Troopers other than a quick 1 time call-in or if you are trying to troll with Close the Pocket.
20 Jul 2022, 19:32 PM
#33
avatar of rumartinez89

Posts: 582



This is why they should be remade or improved. Literally every other infantry call in ability within the game you wouldn't mind having an extra one or two, wether its Shock Troops, Commandos, Paratroopers, JLI, Fallshirmjagers, every faction can benefit from having extra call in units.

Stormtroopers are not better than the stock option which is the problem. Grenadiers are just too good that you don't need anything else except more grenadiers which is why 4 Grenadiers and Spotting Scopes is basically the current meta for Whermacht. Since Grenadiers are better at anti-infantry and Panzer Grenadiers are better at anti-tank than StormTroopers there is literally no point to Storm Troopers other than a quick 1 time call-in or if you are trying to troll with Close the Pocket.


Not sure about the first part, Shocks and all other Soviet Elites are heavily outshined by reg Guards. Hell with SVT drops elites aren’t even needed. So Soviets don’t really need them unless you are playing Penals. Paratroopers are fairly rare now unless you suffered wipes because they don’t fit in the build and come rather late with horrible target size and Rangers are even rarer due to lack of abilities. I agree with the other faction especially OKW which is mostly due to VG scaling.

With regards to Stormtroopers, I agree Grens are too good for anyone to use anything else. PG are the fastest available Elite unit yet no one uses them unless their build is specifically focused around them. The other issue is a commander with ambush camo gives your mainline a close enough version of what you get with Storms especially if you put it on PG.

What do you think about giving them PG STG, it would make them feel more like an elite unit but maintaining their assaulting style. 4 STG might be to strong on spawn so maybe 2stg come equipped while the other 2 are a free upgrade but take some time to tech.
20 Jul 2022, 22:49 PM
#34
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1483



Not sure about the first part, Shocks and all other Soviet Elites are heavily outshined by reg Guards. Hell with SVT drops elites aren’t even needed. So Soviets don’t really need them unless you are playing Penals. Paratroopers are fairly rare now unless you suffered wipes because they don’t fit in the build and come rather late with horrible target size and Rangers are even rarer due to lack of abilities. I agree with the other faction especially OKW which is mostly due to VG scaling.

With regards to Stormtroopers, I agree Grens are too good for anyone to use anything else. PG are the fastest available Elite unit yet no one uses them unless their build is specifically focused around them. The other issue is a commander with ambush camo gives your mainline a close enough version of what you get with Storms especially if you put it on PG.

What do you think about giving them PG STG, it would make them feel more like an elite unit but maintaining their assaulting style. 4 STG might be to strong on spawn so maybe 2stg come equipped while the other 2 are a free upgrade but take some time to tech.


Honestly, I've seen stormtroopers more than rangers and paras combined. At least in 3v3s.
Stormtroopers could have used a rework, to fit more easily. But then again... so could have rangers and paras.
Storms at least have a call-in mechanic that could be useful. Paras just don't fit at 3CP and bleed horribly at start. Rangers at least somewhat fit on tight maps. Mostly because wipes are more prominent there since units tend to bunch up. The biggest irony in all of it is, that despite the sad state of balance affairs, the community team left it in, it's still very well playable for 3 factions. USF is either pathfinders or suffer and brits are just your regular brits.
21 Jul 2022, 22:19 PM
#35
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 761 | Subs: 1

No?


why the fuck would it be considered too strong? The Arnold terminator tier fallshirmjagers are more annoying and kill models easier
21 Jul 2022, 22:55 PM
#36
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 643

At the bare minimum Storm Troopers should have the option of having 2 Panzer Shrecks and an upgrade for MG-42 (exclusive upgrades not at the same time) so that they can at least be flexible.

Second, they should have some form of damage reduction like Grenadiers do built into the unit (even if it means making them super expensive like 400 MP)

They should be rare but impactful/strong instead of a crappy version of stock options or Partisans.
3 Aug 2022, 14:33 PM
#37
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 1183

For me the most OP ability about commandoes is the fact that on vet3 they get free smoke on retreat. That means in practice that you can use commandoes to cover retreat for other low-hp squads since smoke blinds peripherally.

No other unit has this shit, and I bet your ass if an Axis unit had this ability the forum would have burned.
3 Aug 2022, 15:15 PM
#38
avatar of leithianz

Posts: 471

Commandos are indeed OP and must be nerfed.




.... If they were on any other faction but UKF.
3 Aug 2022, 18:36 PM
#39
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 1183

Commandos are indeed OP and must be nerfed.




.... If they were on any other faction but UKF.


That's what I also believe.

Imagine putting free smoke upon retreat on, say, Obers or Falls so that you could retreat them and cover a whole tank battalion reversing.

Just imagine.
4 Aug 2022, 09:35 AM
#40
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1285

Ost already has a simaler feuture on all their vehicles just for a tiny amount of muni in a lot of doctrines. Saving many vehicles from destruction.
And that okay according to most people.

Yet one unit in one doctrine on the other side that has it vet locked and is close range inf unit... and thats a problem. Because it negates the wipe chance?

The extent people go to prove something is op...
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