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Command P4 vs Command AEC - what the buff!

AEC vs P4 : Greater commander
Option Distribution Votes
43%
57%
Total votes: 21
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
26 Jun 2022, 04:09 AM
#1
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1738

AEC command comes earlier aura to team mates!
On the command vehicle: -50% accuracy and +100% reload penalty
Infantry: +20% accuracy, -20% cooldown, -20% reload
Vehicles: -30% reload, -30% cooldown, +30% accuracy, +15% penetration

P4 command slower to deploy, vets like a snail and only aura buff a 10% health nowadays!
26 Jun 2022, 09:04 AM
#2
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13148 | Subs: 1

C. Panzer 4 is still in weird place.

Cost more manpower than a normal PzIV.

Has worse AI than ostwind for the same fuel.

Combines low accuracy and penetration so is not very good vs light tanks.

Has the same tech requirement as PzIV/Ostwind.

Has same XP value as PZIV ans similar vet bonuses.

Has the a pop of 12 although a support unit.

In most cases building an ostwind or PzIV is a better choice.

26 Jun 2022, 10:12 AM
#3
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 885

How is this remotely comparable? AEC doesn't do much in the late game so putting the command aura on it (even with penalties) is a net big buff to your army. Those bonuses are equivalent to two levels of vet. Clearly the Command AEC is far superior to the Command Panzer, unless you have lottery-winning RNG with the short 75mm gun.
26 Jun 2022, 10:56 AM
#4
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 962 | Subs: 1

Command P4 pretty much makes your armor is less vulnerable to AT guns\Units. Pretty much all your medium tanks become 5 hits instead of 4 hits.

On top of that command P4 buffs all units, including the ones from your teammates, while command vehicles buffs either only yours or UKF units (cant remember it).

Plus P4 comes with a bunch of commanders and you can really cheese it out with different combinations, like spotting scope, buffing super heaves, panzer tactician or hull down.

Over-all command P4 is a meh unit on its own and provides less strate forward buffs, unlike command vehicle. And more importantly its orientated more on buffing multiple tanks rather inf.
26 Jun 2022, 11:47 AM
#5
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 702 | Subs: 1

panzer 4 command affects your teammates as well as your own vehicles
aec command needs sidetech and muni investments and it does not buff your teammates. However it does significantly upgun your tommies infantry and lets them actually become good mainline, your tanks get good buffs too


both are alright, AEC is weaker in durability and becomes useless on it's own, while the P4 can at least pepper some infantry and then serve to buff your armor. Infantry get some buff from the P4 command aura too but i have no idea what it does
26 Jun 2022, 13:51 PM
#6
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2837 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jun 2022, 09:04 AMVipper
C. Panzer 4 is still in weird place.

Cost more manpower than a normal PzIV.

Has worse AI than ostwind for the same fuel.

Combines low accuracy and penetration so is not very good vs light tanks.

Has the same tech requirement as PzIV/Ostwind.

Has same XP value as PZIV ans similar vet bonuses.

Has the a pop of 12 although a support unit.

In most cases building an ostwind or PzIV is a better choice.

The Command P4 is a utility unit. Comparing it only based on combat performance with combat focused units does not make a strong argument.

The odd position the Command P4 has is that it is not really worth it in 1v1, but quite strong in 4v4, especially for arranged teams.
26 Jun 2022, 14:04 PM
#7
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13148 | Subs: 1


The Command P4 is a utility unit. Comparing it only based on combat performance with combat focused units does not make a strong argument.

The odd position the Command P4 has is that it is not really worth it in 1v1, but quite strong in 4v4, especially for arranged teams.

It combat performance combined with its high manpower cost/XP value/pop/tech is related those value are not values of a support unit.
26 Jun 2022, 14:50 PM
#8
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2837 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jun 2022, 14:04 PMVipper
It combat performance combined with its high manpower cost/XP value/pop/tech is related those value are not values of a support unit.

I agree on the XP value. The others have nothing to do with some type of unit class, but have to match the "worth" of a unit on the battlefield.

The command P4 has about the AI of a normal P4. You basically trade the AT capability for utility and some all in all cheaper cost. It is incredibly strong in team games when you can support your teammates' forces and literally buff units worth >100 population for a coordinated push. But this mostly works in large games with arranged teams. In smaller modes, especially with randoms, it does not, because you only buff your army, half of which is probably somewhere else or cycling between frontline and base. A similar effect comes from map size.

Overall it is a good unit, but just like many heavies, it works better in larger modes and is hard to fit in smaller modes.

Regarding OP's post: It really does not make sense to compare the Command P4 with UKF's designate ability. I have no idea what the point of this is besides some rant that the Command P4 were UP.
26 Jun 2022, 14:55 PM
#9
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13148 | Subs: 1


I agree on the XP value. The others have nothing to do with some type of unit class, but have to match the "worth" of a unit on the battlefield.

Manpower cost/pop/tech is all related to role and how it compares to alternatives.


The command P4 has about the AI of a normal P4. You basically trade the AT capability for utility and some all in all cheaper cost. It is incredibly strong in team games when you can support your teammates' forces and literally buff units worth >100 population for a coordinated push. But this mostly works in large games with arranged teams. In smaller modes, especially with randoms, it does not, because you only buff your army, half of which is probably somewhere else or cycling between frontline and base. A similar effect comes from map size.

Overall it is a good unit, but just like many heavies, it works better in larger modes and is hard to fit in smaller modes.

I have played several large mode games and I hardly see the unit.
26 Jun 2022, 16:44 PM
#10
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3381 | Subs: 1

How is this remotely comparable? AEC doesn't do much in the late game so putting the command aura on it (even with penalties) is a net big buff to YOUR army.

The bold word is the only reason this is "remotely comparable". AEC only effects your units, which is a sensible balance measure

The Cmd P4 effects everyone on your team, and it's the best type of stat bonus a unit can get. Their value is absolutely comparable, if anything the Cmd P4 is much better when it comes to team games specifically

In 1v1s Id say the cmd AEC is much more useful than Cp4. If brit cmd effected your teammates it would be absurdly broken, obviously

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jun 2022, 14:55 PMVipper

I have played several large mode games and I hardly see the unit.

Congratulations. I also have played a lot of team games, Fortified Armor is my most used wher commander the last year or so

It's much more common to see it with arranged teams then random ones
26 Jun 2022, 17:05 PM
#11
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13148 | Subs: 1


...

Congratulations. I also have played a lot of team games, Fortified Armor is my most used wher commander the last year or so

It's much more common to see it with arranged teams then random ones

You are entitled to play off meta.

Stats:
https://coh2stats.com/stats?range=range&statsSource=all&type=4v4&race=wermacht&fromTimeStamp=1631145600&toTimeStamp=1656201600

498.661 games with Jaeger Armor Doctrine in load out
164.824 games with Fortified Armor Doctrine in load out
26 Jun 2022, 18:12 PM
#12
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1255

Maybe i am wrong but isent the range of the cmnd p4's quite a bit larger and i believe the command designation also slowed the brit vehicle in question? Or did they change that?
26 Jun 2022, 19:31 PM
#13
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3381 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jun 2022, 17:05 PMVipper

You are entitled to play off meta.

Stats:
https://coh2stats.com/stats?range=range&statsSource=all&type=4v4&race=wermacht&fromTimeStamp=1631145600&toTimeStamp=1656201600

498.661 games with Jaeger Armor Doctrine in load out
164.824 games with Fortified Armor Doctrine in load out

You know Fortified isn't the only commander with the cmd p4 right? That's not a relevant point at all. Spotting Scopes synergy with the elefant being amazing doesn't have anything to do with the command tank. German Mechanized is very popular too

My favorite commander is also not important, that's literally the point I was making Vipper... You just said :
jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jun 2022, 17:05 PMVipper

I have played several large mode games and I hardly see the unit.

This has just as much value as me saying my favorite commander in team games. Which is close to none. It's a personal observation

The command p4 is amazing in arranged teams, there's a reason the bonus had to be nerfed from 20% to 10%. Despite that it's still really good in teams
26 Jun 2022, 19:58 PM
#14
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13148 | Subs: 1


You know Fortified isn't the only commander with the cmd p4 right? That's not a relevant point at all. Spotting Scopes synergy with the elefant being amazing doesn't have anything to do with the command tank. German Mechanized is very popular too

My favorite commander is also not important, that's literally the point I was making Vipper... You just said :

This has just as much value as me saying my favorite commander in team games. Which is close to none. It's a personal observation

The command p4 is amazing in arranged teams, there's a reason the bonus had to be nerfed from 20% to 10%. Despite that it's still really good in teams

And just because German mechanized is more popular does not mean that it chosen for the C. Pz4 and not the spotting scope.

What exactly is the point you are trying to make here? That C. Panzer is so good that is being used all the time in large modes?
26 Jun 2022, 20:04 PM
#15
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3381 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jun 2022, 19:58 PMVipper

And just because German mechanized is more popular does not mean that it chosen for the C. Pz4 and not the spotting scope.

I didn't say it was, though it would be bizarre to pick that cmdr just for spotting Scopes. You're the one who brought up commander pickrate for Jaeger Armor.... There are 2 in the top 10 with cmd p4. That's just a fact

Calling it off meta is an exaggeration

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jun 2022, 19:58 PMVipper

What exactly is the point you are trying to make here? That C. Panzer is so good that is being used all the time in large modes?

Not sure why you are asking me this, it was literally in the post you just quoted:

The command p4 is amazing in arranged teams, there's a reason the bonus had to be nerfed from 20% to 10%. Despite that it's still really good in teams

It's an received damage aura bonus that effects your team. I'm not sure why that needs to be explained as being useful in team games
26 Jun 2022, 20:48 PM
#16
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13148 | Subs: 1


I didn't say it was, though it would be bizarre to pick that cmdr just for spotting Scopes. You're the one who brought up commander pickrate for Jaeger Armor.... There are 2 in the top 10 with cmd p4. That's just a fact

If you claiming that this commanders are in the load out because of the C.Pz you will need more top make your case.


Calling it off meta is an exaggeration


Not sure why you are asking me this, it was literally in the post you just quoted:

It's an received damage aura bonus that effects your team. I'm not sure why that needs to be explained as being useful in team games

I was responding to a comment by Hannibal who wrote:
"It is incredibly strong in team games when you can support your teammates' forces and literally buff units worth >100 population for a coordinated push."

If you agree with the comment pls elaborate, if you disagree or you want to say something else on the subject there is no need to quote me.

If you simply do not like my argument its fine by me.
26 Jun 2022, 20:59 PM
#17
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3381 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jun 2022, 20:48 PMVipper

If you claiming that this commanders are in the load out because of the C.Pz you will need more top make your case.

Why else would they be there? There are other commanders above them that have howitzers or elefants and spotting scopes. And yet still people pick them enough to be top 10

And I don't if you don't. You said they are offmeta. That alone shows that's not true. If that's not good enough for you then you also need better proof of them being offmeta.... It works both ways

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jun 2022, 20:48 PMVipper

I was responding to a comment by Hannibal who wrote:
"It is incredibly strong in team games when you can support your teammates' forces and literally buff units worth >100 population for a coordinated push."

If you agree with the comment pls elaborate, if you disagree or you want to say something else on the subject there is no need to quote me.

You need to elaborate. You didn't respond to anything he said. You just said "I never see it"

I can't make my point any clearer. It's amazing with an arranged team
26 Jun 2022, 21:03 PM
#18
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13148 | Subs: 1


Why else would they be there? There are other commanders above them that have howitzers or elefants and spotting scopes. And yet still people pick them enough to be top 10

You need to elaborate. You didn't respond to anything he said. You just said "I never see it"

I can't make my point any clearer. It's amazing with an arranged team

You have not responded to my question and this is going nowhere.

I have explained what the problems with C.Pz are in post 2 and I am moving on.
26 Jun 2022, 21:11 PM
#19
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3381 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jun 2022, 21:03 PMVipper

I have explained what the problems with C.Pz are in post 2 and I am moving on.

I read that post, you didn't even mention the 1 reason anyone builds the unit. No mention of the aura, no mention of how it's clearly a team game unit

That's not useful analysis by any definition
26 Jun 2022, 22:12 PM
#20
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13148 | Subs: 1


I read that post, you didn't even mention the 1 reason anyone builds the unit. No mention of the aura, no mention of how it's clearly a team game unit

That's not useful analysis by any definition

It highlight the problems of the unit and thus useful by my definition.

You are entitled to your opinion thought.
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