From a 1v1 perspective this is probably the best stock infantry unit. Now I'm guessing they modified this unit because of survivability problems in 3v3 and 4v4 games where MGs become less effective since they're easier to flank. I hate when they do that though because they usually end up screwing things up for 1v1 games.
Fighting OST in 1v1 matches is pretty tough right now. If someone is building 3-4 Gren sqauds they're going to wipe the floor with Riflemen, Conscripts, and definitely 4-man Infantry Sections.
Penals do well against them, and the Penal+Scout Car and Flamethrower Combat Engineers will overcome the Grens+MG42 spamming.
Is this still a 240mp+60muni unit? Kinda ridiculous they're wiping much more expensive units.
Has anyone noticed Grenadiers are really good?
24 Jan 2022, 04:17 AM
#1
Posts: 884
24 Jan 2022, 07:28 AM
#2
Posts: 197
Grens are very cost effective for their initial cost, and their 30MP reinforce cost doesn't even exist if you basically autowin every engagement by having 2-3 grenadiers in the same spot.
It is obnoxiously easy to use grens in low-mid tier matches seeing as how their MG upgrade literally has so much damage output in a burst that it is not uncommon for the MG42 to spray down a model each time it fires for a brief second
OST needs the least amount of micro to be played effectively and that extends to Grens aswell, early game prior to you upgrading your squads with the MG upgrade you can unironically just blob them up and the Grens volleyfiring will often snipe models like crazy
Of course rocket arty exists, but it's stock only on one allied faction, and it comes all the way in T4.
Skillblobbing with A-move AT guns(works best with axis due to their efficient infantry) has become so prevalent in the past two years that I think moving the Katy down to T3 is a good idea
It is obnoxiously easy to use grens in low-mid tier matches seeing as how their MG upgrade literally has so much damage output in a burst that it is not uncommon for the MG42 to spray down a model each time it fires for a brief second
OST needs the least amount of micro to be played effectively and that extends to Grens aswell, early game prior to you upgrading your squads with the MG upgrade you can unironically just blob them up and the Grens volleyfiring will often snipe models like crazy
Of course rocket arty exists, but it's stock only on one allied faction, and it comes all the way in T4.
Skillblobbing with A-move AT guns(works best with axis due to their efficient infantry) has become so prevalent in the past two years that I think moving the Katy down to T3 is a good idea
24 Jan 2022, 11:13 AM
#3
Posts: 3106 | Subs: 2
I find Grens very well balanced at the moment. I think the Gren/Conscript balance is similarly good to what I remember it to be years ago. Start the fight from long range, and your Conscripts will lose, start it mid to close and Conscripts will win.
Haven't played much Brits recently, but as OST I always had the feeling that Sections usually win against my Grens if they are in cover.
Looking at the statistics Ostheer in 1v1 has slightly below 50% winrate, which probably indicates that they are a bit too weak. It would be interesting if the winrate depends on game length and to which extend, but at least generally it is safe to say that Grens do not carry Ostheer to victory.
Haven't played much Brits recently, but as OST I always had the feeling that Sections usually win against my Grens if they are in cover.
Looking at the statistics Ostheer in 1v1 has slightly below 50% winrate, which probably indicates that they are a bit too weak. It would be interesting if the winrate depends on game length and to which extend, but at least generally it is safe to say that Grens do not carry Ostheer to victory.
24 Jan 2022, 14:51 PM
#4
Posts: 1515
Well grenediers win vs:
1) conscripts long and medium range
2) Rifles long range
They lose vs IS on long range but win close if I'm not mistaken.
MG42 gives them a substantial firepower boost, making them melt enemy infantry, especially if blobbed.
However, even though grens are extremely cost efficient and are probably the best mainline infantry alongside conscripts, they don't really carry the OST faction. The main thing is, the rifles and cons start to fall off as the game progresses. Cons do have the 7th man which is invaluable to their playstyle, but against rifles they dominate. Brits IS are good long range, but with the lack of a snare, quite vulnerable to vehicles.
Again, it's mostly map dependent. A lot of maps favor long range engagements in larger modes unlike smaller modes. They synergize extremely well with the defensive nature of OST. On one hand, you need to displace and probably force the retreat of the MG42, but on the other, grens will melt you if you let them.
All in all, well balanced.
1) conscripts long and medium range
2) Rifles long range
They lose vs IS on long range but win close if I'm not mistaken.
MG42 gives them a substantial firepower boost, making them melt enemy infantry, especially if blobbed.
However, even though grens are extremely cost efficient and are probably the best mainline infantry alongside conscripts, they don't really carry the OST faction. The main thing is, the rifles and cons start to fall off as the game progresses. Cons do have the 7th man which is invaluable to their playstyle, but against rifles they dominate. Brits IS are good long range, but with the lack of a snare, quite vulnerable to vehicles.
Again, it's mostly map dependent. A lot of maps favor long range engagements in larger modes unlike smaller modes. They synergize extremely well with the defensive nature of OST. On one hand, you need to displace and probably force the retreat of the MG42, but on the other, grens will melt you if you let them.
All in all, well balanced.
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24 Jan 2022, 15:17 PM
#5
Posts: 124
Aganist USF grens are op. Late game gren blob with mg42 is death sentence to USF.
24 Jan 2022, 16:51 PM
#6
Posts: 786 | Subs: 1
grenadiers have a 4 minute window where they are formidable troops, and then they are S tier for the rest of the game
the coh2.org forum experience:
24 Jan 2022, 19:58 PM
#7
Posts: 884
So to add, the Gren+Panzergren infantry line up at the moment works a lot better than the Riflemen + double BARs thing. So you don't really have an infantry advantage to press without going Paratroopers. Even Rangers seem to preform poorly against this stock line-up.
Brits do seem to fare better if you get the super expensive bolster upgrade, and double Brens are not overly expensive.
Soviets seem to be able to manage the best.
A lot of the UKF/USF nerfs don't make any sense now that the grens are better. Seriously, what early game advantages are left for USF now that your opponent's stock infantry will outpreform your own (along with their armor and team weapons.
Brits do seem to fare better if you get the super expensive bolster upgrade, and double Brens are not overly expensive.
Soviets seem to be able to manage the best.
A lot of the UKF/USF nerfs don't make any sense now that the grens are better. Seriously, what early game advantages are left for USF now that your opponent's stock infantry will outpreform your own (along with their armor and team weapons.
25 Jan 2022, 10:02 AM
#8
Posts: 682
So to add, the Gren+Panzergren infantry line up at the moment works a lot better than the Riflemen + double BARs thing. So you don't really have an infantry advantage to press without going Paratroopers. Even Rangers seem to preform poorly against this stock line-up.
Brits do seem to fare better if you get the super expensive bolster upgrade, and double Brens are not overly expensive.
Soviets seem to be able to manage the best.
A lot of the UKF/USF nerfs don't make any sense now that the grens are better. Seriously, what early game advantages are left for USF now that your opponent's stock infantry will outpreform your own (along with their armor and team weapons.
The same pgrens that can solo a Pershing?
/s
25 Jan 2022, 16:25 PM
#9
Posts: 79
playing USF against grenadier with MG I think something that can have an effect and RE with grenade launcher or mortar
27 Jan 2022, 02:37 AM
#10
Posts: 1794
grenadiers have a 4 minute window where they are formidable troops, and then they are S tier for the rest of the game
i say the other way.
grens are not good long game
they have a 8 minute competitive window and falls off worse than cons, penals, rifles and is.
grens have poor wipe chase-down dps.
lmg grens cant mass spam to over power allies backline.
4 man grens more suspectible to wipes from medium tank chase down
27 Jan 2022, 02:47 AM
#11
Posts: 309 | Subs: 1
Grens are totally overtuned atm, imo. In the beginning of the match, they are on par with most infantry except maybe penals, but when they get their MG, they are basically unstoppable with only 60 mun investment. And they have rifle nades, too.
The real bullshit imo is that the only real counter to gren blobs, rocket arty, is also not really effective against them because of their received fire buff, which makes them extremely hard too kill. Combined with MG42 and the best crew weapons in general, this is just really dumb.
The real bullshit imo is that the only real counter to gren blobs, rocket arty, is also not really effective against them because of their received fire buff, which makes them extremely hard too kill. Combined with MG42 and the best crew weapons in general, this is just really dumb.
Have you ever woken up in the middle of the night, totally shaken and lost, because in your dream you were hearing Katyushas firing?
27 Jan 2022, 03:19 AM
#12
Posts: 1794
you just play the long game against gren, retreat earlier, gain xp, gain cp.
after 10 minutes mark, grens drop off to your vetted allies infantry.
grens are 4 man squad, lmg cannot fire on the move. and not that cheap to reinforce.
they are hardly op, but in an ok spot now.
after 10 minutes mark, grens drop off to your vetted allies infantry.
grens are 4 man squad, lmg cannot fire on the move. and not that cheap to reinforce.
they are hardly op, but in an ok spot now.
27 Jan 2022, 11:17 AM
#13
Posts: 786 | Subs: 1
i say the other way.
grens are not good long game
they have a 8 minute competitive window and falls off worse than cons, penals, rifles and is.
grens have poor wipe chase-down dps.
lmg grens cant mass spam to over power allies backline.
4 man grens more suspectible to wipes from medium tank chase down
if you play with them like imperial dane does and charge close rage with not upgraded grenadiers into riflemen and conscripts
then yeah, they suck
but otherwise you're capping
the coh2.org forum experience:
27 Jan 2022, 14:18 PM
#15
Posts: 808
grens op? grens the best main line now? wtf are people on this forum on about. they are FAR from OP.
27 Jan 2022, 20:14 PM
#16
Posts: 786 | Subs: 1
grens op? grens the best main line now? wtf are people on this forum on about. they are FAR from OP.
"far from op"
far as in Hermann Goering's jumping distance
the coh2.org forum experience:
30 Jan 2022, 03:22 AM
#17
Posts: 884
"far from op"
far as in Hermann Goering's jumping distance
I know right?
USF has, for most of the life of this game, been the harder faction. What sucks now about the Gren thing is that USF pretty much only has Riflemen to rely on in the early game. So now literally the one and only thing that was supposed to give you an advantage basically isn't there anymore.
Despite the fact that USF has so many things available early game, those things are almost all completely useless. Who's going to pay to unlock weapon racks, grenades, or even get an ambulance before teching to T1-2? Those things are all totally irrelevant T0 because you don't have the resources to utilize them
31 Jan 2022, 02:44 AM
#18
Posts: 503 | Subs: 1
I know right?
USF has, for most of the life of this game, been the harder faction. What sucks now about the Gren thing is that USF pretty much only has Riflemen to rely on in the early game. So now literally the one and only thing that was supposed to give you an advantage basically isn't there anymore.
Despite the fact that USF has so many things available early game, those things are almost all completely useless. Who's going to pay to unlock weapon racks, grenades, or even get an ambulance before teching to T1-2? Those things are all totally irrelevant T0 because you don't have the resources to utilize them
I know you've been screaming this for the past 5 years and have pretty much no credibility but I actually agree with you this patch (and the first major Luchs patch which made the Luchs' shock timing impossible for USF to deal with).
Most of the OP bullshit making USF strong in the past has been reined in, while USF late game is still miserable vs Panther + P4J + Obers + skillplanes or cancer-inducing Ost team weapon walls (have to almost always pick recon support or urban assault vs Ost) while the usual game-losing issues (pizza base, ambulance, AT gun/mg split) have persisted because Lelic didn't allow those issues to be rectified.
31 Jan 2022, 04:32 AM
#19
Posts: 268
I know you've been screaming this for the past 5 years and have pretty much no credibility but I actually agree with you this patch (and the first major Luchs patch which made the Luchs' shock timing impossible for USF to deal with).
Most of the OP bullshit making USF strong in the past has been reined in, while USF late game is still miserable vs Panther + P4J + Obers + skillplanes or cancer-inducing Ost team weapon walls (have to almost always pick recon support or urban assault vs Ost) while the usual game-losing issues (pizza base, ambulance, AT gun/mg split) have persisted because Lelic didn't allow those issues to be rectified.
But in coh3 now it seems that the USF is no worse than ostheer.
Driver, let's get this show on the road.
31 Jan 2022, 07:55 AM
#20
Posts: 3600 | Subs: 1
Imo, from 1vs1 perpective but that's probably true on team game, the issue isn't the grenadier by itself but a combination of at least 3 factors that put together made early game Ostheer >>> Usf.
1- Extra vision range on pioneer combo with the hmg42 forcing usf to avoid any engagement with them, you can't reasonbly flank this combo unless your oponent made a mistake.
2- Extra range on pfaust making lvs play extremely hasardous, if you're not a top notch in lv micro it always ends badely.
3-Extra squad early game. Unless you decided to go 4xRM you're down to 1 squad less than your opponent until until your first officer come in. And in count its one squad less and one squad unable to fight on its own.
1- Extra vision range on pioneer combo with the hmg42 forcing usf to avoid any engagement with them, you can't reasonbly flank this combo unless your oponent made a mistake.
2- Extra range on pfaust making lvs play extremely hasardous, if you're not a top notch in lv micro it always ends badely.
3-Extra squad early game. Unless you decided to go 4xRM you're down to 1 squad less than your opponent until until your first officer come in. And in count its one squad less and one squad unable to fight on its own.
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