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Poll on new zoom out level in CoH3 alpha

6 Dec 2021, 10:37 AM
#21
avatar of Elpern

Posts: 78

I agree with pornoke, choice is better than restriction. If you think it is too zoomed out, you can literally zoom in, you have the option to do so. If the max zoom is too close, then you have restricted the player to zoom out any further. The zoom level is fine, if anything further options should be given to players in the settings menu where they can decide to have their "default" zoom and angle, this way everyone gets happy.
6 Dec 2021, 10:39 AM
#22
avatar of Wreathlit Noël
Donator 11

Posts: 168

My instinct is to say that the CoH3 zoom is too far but that may just be because I'm not used to it yet. I'm interested in seeing if the issue of units being somewhat difficult to see is due to the lack of finished lighting effects. CoH3 currently seems to have less vibrant lighting style and shadows are quite harsh.
6 Dec 2021, 20:29 PM
#23
avatar of gunther09
Donator 22

Posts: 497

after watching your DevM/Aimstrong cast: Relic might also make the units slightly bigger. Would look cooler. less realistic, but nicer to look at
7 Dec 2021, 00:17 AM
#24
avatar of Spanky
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1785 | Subs: 2

The scale of units feels good enough relative to the maps.
7 Dec 2021, 01:00 AM
#25
avatar of TheMachine
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 871 | Subs: 6

I'm not sure if it's the Zoom level that's the main problem, or if it's just the size of tanks being small. The power fantasy of controlling tanks is ruined when they look tiny compared to the massive buildings and environments. I think they need to scale up vehicles by 15% or so.

But I also would like to see the zoom level reduced a bit as it will help. There's other oddities that look really bad, like how low to the ground planes look since you can zoom out above them. CoH2 planes have the illusion of being high up because the camera zoom level is stuck below them.
7 Dec 2021, 01:07 AM
#26
avatar of TheMachine
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 871 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Dec 2021, 10:37 AMElpern
I agree with pornoke, choice is better than restriction. If you think it is too zoomed out, you can literally zoom in, you have the option to do so. If the max zoom is too close, then you have restricted the player to zoom out any further. The zoom level is fine, if anything further options should be given to players in the settings menu where they can decide to have their "default" zoom and angle, this way everyone gets happy.


I don't think the choice argument works. Players are incentivized to zoom out because it gives them a gameplay advantage since they can see more and control more simultaneously. People aren't going to sacrifice their playability for improved visuals. But if the zoom is lower for everyone, then everyone can appreciate the better scale it can deliver, without anyone being punished for it.
7 Dec 2021, 03:01 AM
#27
avatar of GiaA

Posts: 682 | Subs: 2



I don't think the choice argument works. Players are incentivized to zoom out because it gives them a gameplay advantage since they can see more and control more simultaneously. People aren't going to sacrifice their playability for improved visuals. But if the zoom is lower for everyone, then everyone can appreciate the better scale it can deliver, without anyone being punished for it.


This. The "just zoom out more" argument isn't valid. Competitive players will be forced to zoom out unless they want to sabotage themselves.

There's an issue with elevation and zoom. Elevated areas are simply closer to the camera. This makes the zoom level very inconsistent and is one reason why elevation was unpopular in past CoHs.
7 Dec 2021, 04:05 AM
#28
avatar of Spanky
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1785 | Subs: 2

Camera will be the new tech as well it seems, a dynamic one.
7 Dec 2021, 04:40 AM
#29
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1706 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Dec 2021, 03:01 AMGiaA
There's an issue with elevation and zoom. Elevated areas are simply closer to the camera. This makes the zoom level very inconsistent and is one reason why elevation was unpopular in past CoHs.

This. I would immediately veto a map with large elevation changes. Having the camera jump around out of your control would equal motion sickness. IMHO It would be best have the camera stuck at a certain height and not let mappers exceed a certain elevation.
7 Dec 2021, 13:16 PM
#30
avatar of TickTack

Posts: 567

A 50/50 result would show that Relic has a lot more work to do on its coh3 camera.
7 Dec 2021, 14:17 PM
#31
avatar of OrangePest

Posts: 491 | Subs: 1



I don't think the choice argument works. Players are incentivized to zoom out because it gives them a gameplay advantage since they can see more and control more simultaneously. People aren't going to sacrifice their playability for improved visuals. But if the zoom is lower for everyone, then everyone can appreciate the better scale it can deliver, without anyone being punished for it.


I feel like *I* get punished if I'm forced to zoom in at levels that are way to close though, i went back to coh2 briefly and the shit makes me nauseous. And looking back on a lot of RTS games the zoom out levels are much further out in general, coh2s level is far too zoomed in.

The level it's at is currently great in my opinon.
7 Dec 2021, 14:30 PM
#32
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2160 | Subs: 1

The current zoom is great, going back to coh2 actually feels nauseating and claustrophobic overall.


like ww2
14 Dec 2021, 11:08 AM
#33
avatar of Elpern

Posts: 78



I don't think the choice argument works. Players are incentivized to zoom out because it gives them a gameplay advantage since they can see more and control more simultaneously. People aren't going to sacrifice their playability for improved visuals. But if the zoom is lower for everyone, then everyone can appreciate the better scale it can deliver, without anyone being punished for it.


So you're against the implementation of tac map then? It objectively gives you a gameplay advantage, and not everyone uses it, me included. What about hotkeys? Not everyone uses those, yet they give you an objective advantage compared to not using them. Are you against those too?

Why do you want to restrict how other people play, just because you prefer not to use it?
14 Dec 2021, 15:37 PM
#34
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 902

So many years of COH I liked to take a closer look in the game simply because I wanted to glimpse at the details of each and every unit (their coats, weapons etc) and it always made it very immersive for me.

The new zoom levels, to me, is a poor attempt to bring the game to a TotalWar-like level (just like the campaign). Overall, I just want the option to zoom in/out at will.
17 Dec 2021, 00:32 AM
#35
avatar of Spanky
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1785 | Subs: 2

After playing CoH2 again I couldn't believe my eyes how zoomed in it actually is. It's actually more stressful for a player who doesn't use the tact map cause the amount of scrolling around is just bs. I now see it differently after trying CoH3 and I feel CoH has the best zoom out distance of the three.
17 Dec 2021, 05:53 AM
#36
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2000 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Dec 2021, 00:32 AMSpanky
After playing CoH2 again I couldn't believe my eyes how zoomed in it actually is. It's actually more stressful for a player who doesn't use the tact map cause the amount of scrolling around is just bs. I now see it differently after trying CoH3 and I feel CoH has the best zoom out distance of the three.


For me personally, the opposite is true. I hate the large scale, the game turns into moving icons and not units. So I don't like the Steel Division. The large scale of the RTS does not involve me in the game. CoH2 has a great scale for me, and a good minimap (unlike CoH3 so far) complements the necessary perception.
17 Dec 2021, 19:26 PM
#37
avatar of NorthWeapon
Donator 11

Posts: 588

I think zoom out is cool and all that but, no way, I don't like zoom out. CoH has always been up close and personal. Even if zoom out lets you strategize better, I prefer the unique zoomed feel of CoH that makes it CoH.


Not sure if Relic made this decision based on feedback from singleplayer Pre-Alpha where people complained that it was too zoomed in.


Solutions for birds eye view:

1. Tactical map

2. Minimap


Reasons why traditional vCoH/CoH2 style zoom is better:

You can see individual soldier animations better
Game becomes more about micro and tactics and less about grander strategy
Tactical map and minimap usage increases, makes the game fun
You can see grenades incoming and the grenade timer better
You can enjoy the close up details of soldiers and tanks
Tanks feel more massive and scary, soldiers look cooler when bigger. Especially tanks, this sold CoH 2 a lot for players.
Slightly easier to click on units
Easier to discern units from background foliage and map scenery
Great for streaming, youtube, marketing, and media in general ---> Seeing the soldiers shooting their guns up close or the tanks is always cinematic and awesome
Feel free to add more...

https://community.companyofheroes.com/coh-franchise/company-of-heroes-3/forums/1-general-discussion/threads/2171-zoom-the-game-more-like-vcoh-and-coh-2?page=1#post-12559
Pip
17 Dec 2021, 20:00 PM
#38
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1580

I think zoom out is cool and all that but, no way, I don't like zoom out. CoH has always been up close and personal. Even if zoom out lets you strategize better, I prefer the unique zoomed feel of CoH that makes it CoH.


Not sure if Relic made this decision based on feedback from singleplayer Pre-Alpha where people complained that it was too zoomed in.


Solutions for birds eye view:

1. Tactical map

2. Minimap


Reasons why traditional vCoH/CoH2 style zoom is better:

You can see individual soldier animations better
Game becomes more about micro and tactics and less about grander strategy
Tactical map and minimap usage increases, makes the game fun
You can see grenades incoming and the grenade timer better
You can enjoy the close up details of soldiers and tanks
Tanks feel more massive and scary, soldiers look cooler when bigger. Especially tanks, this sold CoH 2 a lot for players.
Slightly easier to click on units
Easier to discern units from background foliage and map scenery
Great for streaming, youtube, marketing, and media in general ---> Seeing the soldiers shooting their guns up close or the tanks is always cinematic and awesome
Feel free to add more...

https://community.companyofheroes.com/coh-franchise/company-of-heroes-3/forums/1-general-discussion/threads/2171-zoom-the-game-more-like-vcoh-and-coh-2?page=1#post-12559


You can solve this "problem" by just zooming in yourself though.
17 Dec 2021, 20:54 PM
#39
avatar of NorthWeapon
Donator 11

Posts: 588

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Dec 2021, 20:00 PMPip


You can solve this "problem" by just zooming in yourself though.


Then you'd have to put yourself at a disadvantage just to enjoy the game more. And I'm talking about the default zoom level, as in what the game is "supposed" to be at
17 Dec 2021, 21:11 PM
#40
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 949 | Subs: 1

I think zoom out is cool and all that but, no way, I don't like zoom out. CoH has always been up close and personal. Even if zoom out lets you strategize better, I prefer the unique zoomed feel of CoH that makes it CoH.


Then you'd have to put yourself at a disadvantage just to enjoy the game more. And I'm talking about the default zoom level, as in what the game is "supposed" to be at

Actually, default CoH3 zoom is very simular to the one in vCoH, which is on itself is zoomed much farther then CoH2 zoom.

CoH2 zoom on the other hand is a garbage, because in puts everyone who plays without tac-map into a disadvatange aswell as amount of scrolling around is ridiculous in CoH2.

Redability and models blending in CoH3 is a different problem, related to graphics and super far zoom is the problem of elevation, since zoom isnt reacting to it, which is most likely just a bug.

Also I woundnt put vCoH\CoH2 on the same line. There is vCoH like zoom and CoH2 like zoom. They are not even remotely simular.
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