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russian armor

SU-76 buff?

SU-76
Option Distribution Votes
32%
50%
18%
Total votes: 62
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
18 Jul 2021, 03:24 AM
#1
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 92

One can have many complaints about the devs being completely...silly, when it comes to balance, but..

The unit is useless.
There is NO redeeming factor to the SU-76, it is completely useless. There is no other Soviet non-doc unit in the game that is so trash, not even the maxim.

Literally never saw anyone but myself make the SU-76 (and another friend of mine, but i used them the most, by far). Legitimately, what purpose is it for? it comes too late to deal with light armor, it cant fight actual armor. It probably cant even 2 shot light vehicles due to lesser damage, but i didn't check. The barrage seems nice, but infantry steps aside and team weapons move or retreat. except that the long cooldown and 35 muni cost literally butcher all your muni reserve and leave you with long periods of no AI, since you have stupidly made this thing instead of a T-70, so you gotta spam the ability to justify NOT having a T-70
It does less damage than the ZIS-3, but is the SAME cannon. The vet 1 ability exists, but i literally never, ever used it, i have no use for it in any situation

What purpose does this tank currently have in the game? it is inferior to the static AT gun at t2 and inferior to the SU-85. It should have a reduced (or even free) barrage cost, have it's gun have the ZIS-3 damage, or compensate with more penetration, etc. You could even go ahead and give it the M-42 anti-infantry shells with sherman type of ammo switch. Replacing the barrage though, obviously.

either it has to get a viable infantry deterrent (But not killer, the T-70 is for that), acting like an SPG on top of current AT capabilities, or it should become a cheap, but spammable TD with devastating capabilities on mass (stug carbon copy). The devs had shown attempts to get out-of-meta units a helping hand, might as well try.
18 Jul 2021, 06:51 AM
#2
avatar of NaOCl

Posts: 369

Its not useless, would be op if it was the same pen as zis-3, maybe give it ability to increase pen temporarily against armoured targets, tied to vet or muni cost or both?
18 Jul 2021, 06:55 AM
#3
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 512

How do people think that Su 76 is useless? I use it almost every game in 3 v 3
18 Jul 2021, 06:56 AM
#4
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1042

Imo its bad because it:

Comes out to late for what its supposed to counter.
Has low armour.
Has target size 20 (wich is the same as the stug and puma has 18)
Has low damage/dps.
Doesnt have that much better mobility for its fragility.
No turret to offset its fragility or low pen/damage

Its only 2 saving graces are:
It has 60 range.
It can barrage.
18 Jul 2021, 17:38 PM
#5
avatar of Ashmole

Posts: 49

I only build it if I'm behind on fuel in order to keep panzer ivs away. It does OK against the Ost panzer iv, but it's not worth the fuel otherwise. IMO it should be either made cheaper, given some sort of special AT ability like armor piercing rounds, or the barrage should be made free again.
18 Jul 2021, 18:11 PM
#6
avatar of EffenNewbie

Posts: 1856

How do people think that Su 76 is useless? I use it almost every game in 3 v 3


I see it in 1's, 2's and 3's but usually not in 4's. I get them when I'm badly behind in fuel and would have to wait too long to get an Su85.

They were OP several years ago. I'd see packs of 4-5 of them. The people that would do that also barraged the shit out of everything. It wasn't fun to play against. I think the barrage was either free or really cheap.

In it's current state, it should get a buff to 160 damage at some level of vet. I think even the Puma gets 160 at vet, and it's a lot more versatile.
18 Jul 2021, 18:22 PM
#7
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 755

it would be nice to see both su76 and stug III get some love, both these tanks drop off on in the late game too easily
18 Jul 2021, 18:38 PM
#8
avatar of EffenNewbie

Posts: 1856

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jul 2021, 18:22 PMAlphrum
it would be nice to see both su76 and stug III get some love, both these tanks drop off on in the late game too easily


It'd be nice if the Stug got to 60 range at Vet 3. That would open up more commander picks instead of always thinking you have to get an Elephant or be pushed around by Jacksons.
18 Jul 2021, 19:20 PM
#9
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 92



I see it in 1's, 2's and 3's but usually not in 4's. I get them when I'm badly behind in fuel and would have to wait too long to get an Su85.

They were OP several years ago. I'd see packs of 4-5 of them. The people that would do that also barraged the shit out of everything. It wasn't fun to play against. I think the barrage was either free or really cheap.

In it's current state, it should get a buff to 160 damage at some level of vet. I think even the Puma gets 160 at vet, and it's a lot more versatile.

yes, this is true, but rarely anybody makes them now. Its much more profitable to rush t4 or go t-70 than to get it. I would honestly tell the devs to either go hardline competitive and buff it with damage at vet, or go with hardcore drugs and give the SU-76 a kv2-lite siege mode, where the tank becomes immobile, but fires HE shells in it's firing cone. That's basically completely fitting for the theme of the SU-76 as well
18 Jul 2021, 19:56 PM
#10
avatar of EffenNewbie

Posts: 1856

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jul 2021, 19:20 PMKatukov

yes, this is true, but rarely anybody makes them now. Its much more profitable to rush t4 or go t-70 than to get it. I would honestly tell the devs to either go hardline competitive and buff it with damage at vet, or go with hardcore drugs and give the SU-76 a kv2-lite siege mode, where the tank becomes immobile, but fires HE shells in it's firing cone. That's basically completely fitting for the theme of the SU-76 as well


I like that idea. It's how the unit was used during WWII. I wouldn't want it to autofire though, because 2-3 of them combined with ZIS's or even lowly PTRS penals would be really hard to play against.
19 Jul 2021, 02:33 AM
#11
avatar of y3ivan

Posts: 102

SU76 is not too bad for an AT. It can counter any axis armor, until the super heavy arrives. Even that SU76 vet3 can do moderately well against king tiger.

SU76 pros:
fast reload 3-4 sec
60 range
good mobility


the problem with this version of SU76 is role as a dedicated AT for 280MP and 75 fuel (8 pop) when i can get a Zis gun that served the same role and better investment in the long game.

the only suggested buff, would be returning its role as an assualt gun. then come another issue. it may perform better than T34/76.

19 Jul 2021, 04:47 AM
#12
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5214

I'd just give it an upgrade when t4 is built that bumps its gun up to zis levels AT A COST PER UNIT and maybe slap another 80hp onto it. Call it the su76 (yea the model in game is already the M variant but I won't tell if you don't)

I also always thought it would be fun to tune it so that it has no/low rear armour so that infantry that get behind it can decrew it.
19 Jul 2021, 13:24 PM
#13
avatar of BetterDead ThanRed

Posts: 168

Su-76 is fine, its just caught between T-70 and T4.

But it would be nice if it had a mortar mode, needing to deploy, where it autofires, but at a lower level than your standard mortar team.
19 Jul 2021, 14:20 PM
#14
avatar of Leo251

Posts: 287

Cmon, the unit is just fine. The barrage ability is OP and has the same pen as the STUG, but with 10 more range.

19 Jul 2021, 15:08 PM
#15
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1614

The unit per se is "fine"
The t-70 is an anti everything tank short of medium tanks, 444 and puma that obliterates infantry squads and it's insanely more popular, Zis is the best at gun in game and the t-34 can be easily accessed after tier 4, and on top of that Guards can soft cou ter light vehicles pushes, so the su-76m has no place among all the much better and safer options.
It should actually be nerfed to 50 range and lower penetration and have a 10 fuel cost reduction so it can be used as emergency AT vehicle
19 Jul 2021, 16:40 PM
#16
avatar of rumartinez89

Posts: 125

How about ammo toggle like Sherman?
HE rounds can have reduced range like 40 and remove barrage.
19 Jul 2021, 17:02 PM
#17
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1042

How about ammo toggle like Sherman?
HE rounds can have reduced range like 40 and remove barrage.


Its already really fragile. Having to expose its self to at more then now is overdoing it.

It needs a timing buff more then anything else. It misses the timing of lights imo.

The flaktrack 222 flametrack have good window vs soviets because the su76 competes with the t70. And the zis cant be everywhere. Both t70 and su76 come a tiny bit before the first mediums.

Su76 is more a light vehicle destroyer then a medium td. Its damage is low and it can only pen the <vet 1 ost p4 or anything below effeciently. so why would you ever build it when its moment to shine has already past?

19 Jul 2021, 17:09 PM
#18
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1042

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Jul 2021, 14:20 PMLeo251
Cmon, the unit is just fine. The barrage ability is OP and has the same pen as the STUG, but with 10 more range.



The stug has a bit more pen. Does more damage per shot. Is more durable and can stun. And share in ptact with doctrines.

It can also pen every stock allied vehicle 100% except comets and chruchills. The su76 can only 100 % pen up to the vet 1 ost p4. While it also does less damage per shot.

And please why is the barrage op? Just because it can do damage or force a tw to move from 60 range are bad ones.
19 Jul 2021, 17:34 PM
#19
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 92

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Jul 2021, 14:20 PMLeo251
Cmon, the unit is just fine. The barrage ability is OP and has the same pen as the STUG, but with 10 more range.


it has both inferior damage AND penetration compared to a stug. Barrage ability op? says who? Maybe if you let your infantry blobs to play volleyball with the grenades.


The unit per se is "fine"
The t-70 is an anti everything tank short of medium tanks, 444 and puma that obliterates infantry squads and it's insanely more popular, Zis is the best at gun in game and the t-34 can be easily accessed after tier 4, and on top of that Guards can soft cou ter light vehicles pushes, so the su-76m has no place among all the much better and safer options.
It should actually be nerfed to 50 range and lower penetration and have a 10 fuel cost reduction so it can be used as emergency AT vehicle


The SU-76 lacks firepower to be a tank destroyer, and is useless against infantry (the barrage is overrated, its long cooldown makes it harmless every minute or so). Its outclassed by both the static AT gun and the SU-85, the latter of which is fine. It even struggles to kill light vehicles at times, due to it being a casemate with mediocre tracking.

the suggestion to nerf it is completely stupid, unless it gets pin point perfect on-the-move accuracy, it would be even more useless than it is now. They should simply keep the current stats and buff it's anti infantry (SPG ability), or make it a good pocket TD (stug)
19 Jul 2021, 17:39 PM
#20
avatar of KtheZ

Posts: 13

Shouldn't this poll be more than "its bad or its fine" and include other opinions like "it's good"?

Not that I think the unit is good at all but I think the legitimacy of your OP and poll lowers because of this. Nobody can disagree with you
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