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The state of Sturmtiger

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9 Aug 2021, 17:35 PM
#221
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 784 | Subs: 1


You trash the thread and then post a bunch of suggestions that were already made by multiple people in the same thread. Okay dude :rolleyes:


Said the guy who was included in the argument that ST cant be compared to the rocket arty.

And I know that suggestions were already made by other people, I didn't say that they are mine to begin with. At least I've collected usefull feedback in one post so people dont have to read thought 11 pages of nonsence.
9 Aug 2021, 17:38 PM
#222
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3233 | Subs: 1

But as long as the AVRE is a powerful as it is, the sturmtiger should be on par with it which it currently is.

I really don't see how that last part is true. I also have no problem with the AVRE being nerfhammered out of existence, but is it really a problem? Going purely of my personal experience (obvi that's not all that matters) I literally never see it. I've maybe used it twice since it was added so I have like no reference for this unit at all

ST I have seen every day that I've played for 2 weeks now. Usually more than once
9 Aug 2021, 17:38 PM
#223
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 513

Id be perfectly happy removing sturmtiger and brit AVRE from the game

this is the best and the easiest solution. You have my vote :thumbsup:

The other route is make them stationary during wind-up (lock the movement) and increase the delay by 1.5x..2x for both units.
9 Aug 2021, 17:49 PM
#224
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3233 | Subs: 1


Said the guy who was included in the argument that ST cant be compared to the rocket arty.

You literally just fucking complained about people posting nonsense. I was arguing against his nonsense.... Wtf are you talking about dude???

And I know that suggestions were already made by other people, I didn't say that they are mine to begin with. At least I've collected usefull feedback in one post so people dont have to read thought 11 pages of nonsence.

Yeah some of them were my suggestions... Hence why I'm pushing back against people making nonsense comparisons. But okay, whatever you say
Pip
9 Aug 2021, 18:04 PM
#225
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1545

Even though I main OKW (And mainline Elite Armoured, coincidentally), I would not be displeased to see the Sturmtiger removed (Along with the AVRE, and the B4, though the B4 has been made less of an RNG cannon recently)

A game focused around unit preservation means reliable one-shots are really not appropriate.
9 Aug 2021, 19:43 PM
#226
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 479

Fixing the AVRE projectile would also generate similar rage. So probably best to fix it AND kneecap the vehicles. They should expect to get massively hammered and put into repairs to get a shot off. Maybe just increase ready aim time by 2 seconds and cut range to 30 for both. Still fix the AVRE projectile, as it always lands short (about 30 range), which is just not as communicated by UI. The ST became easier to use when the reticle was fixed.

At that point ST stops being a wipe machine and does what the AVRE does, forces movement and destroys emplacements.

Maybe remove the suppression. Maybe.

Oh, and rip out that Grenade Launcher. Why does it even exist?

Otherwise, just straight removal is fine.

No unit should consitently wipe mainline squads with little recourse, as thats antithetical to CoH gameplay. The game has seen continuous change to minimize that over time.
9 Aug 2021, 19:47 PM
#227
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 513

Fixing the AVRE projectile would also generate similar rage. So probably best to fix it AND kneecap the vehicles. They should expect to get massively hammered and put into repairs to get a shot off. Maybe just increase ready aim time by 2 seconds and cut range to 30 for both. Still fix the AVRE projectile, as it always lands short (about 30 range), which is just not as communicated by UI. The ST became easier to use when the reticle was fixed.

At that point ST stops being a wipe machine and does what the AVRE does, forces movement and destroys emplacements.

Maybe remove the suppression. Maybe.

Nuh, AVRE actually can fire accurately, but you need perfectly flat terrain for it.
9 Aug 2021, 19:55 PM
#228
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 479


Nuh, AVRE actually can fire accurately, but you need perfectly flat terrain for it.


I guess i just never see that. It consistently appears to shoot the inner corner of the targeting circle, normally indicative of some kind of weird interaction. How did they fix this on the ST who had a similar issue? Is the projectile snagging on terrain? I cant remember, did they add worldbreaking to the ST?

I can't find the ST patch notes...
9 Aug 2021, 20:08 PM
#229
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 513



I guess i just never see that. It consistently appears to shoot the inner corner of the targeting circle, normally indicative of some kind of weird interaction. How did they fix this on the ST who had a similar issue? Is the projectile snagging on terrain? I cant remember, did they add worldbreaking to the ST?

I can't find the ST patch notes...


The following change should help the Sturmtiger avoid undershooting and colliding with unintended objects. Previously, the rocket's speed was too fast for the distance it travelled, causing it to collide in front of its targets.
  • Projectile speed from 40 to 25
  • Attack delay from 3 to 2.5
  • Projectile sim-box resized to match the actual shell
9 Aug 2021, 20:30 PM
#230
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 479





Thanks! I wonder if the AVRE boom-bucket has similar sim box issues. Sanders might know. What i would do for updated mod tools...
9 Aug 2021, 20:58 PM
#231
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1111

Why is it so hard to just induce weaknesses to a unit?

If Sturm has the 14 AOE then AVRE should have something else in return.
If Sturm deals N dmg and AVRE deals N-X% damage then it should have something else in return.
Preferably, something unique.

What both units should have is a clear weakness.

Reload makes you completely static.
Aim time is increased.

If AVRE has less HP but more armour than that is pretty clear that it's an asymmetrical balance which is good. ST will get penetrated more but will also need more shots to deal with, while you might not penetrate each shot on the AVRE but on average should take the same amount of time to kill it.

Increase the price and CP of ST. Give it clear weaknesses that you can exploit. Fix the fast fire bug.
You can do the same for the AVRE. It's not so hard to make units that function as "delete unit" button, unique for their respective factions. Currently ST is blatantly OP. Each and every game I've had has seen it. The classical hard to break line if you're unlucky enough to reach super late game is:
ST + KT + obers + dual raketen + [what ever is left of pop cap] and good luck pushing through that. Obers delete each and every mainline infantry. ST deletes AT guns. You'd need 4 TD's, elite infantry and rocket arty to break through that.
If the maps were not lane-y, then you'd have more options, but for the current map design where the ST can sit behind an unbreakable shot/sightblocker and just lob nukes to the VP is just funny.

I can't speak if AVRE is OP or not since I've seen maybe once or twice in all the games I've played, and I'm not exaggerating.
9 Aug 2021, 21:18 PM
#232
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 479



Whats the fastfire bug?
9 Aug 2021, 21:30 PM
#233
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1111


Whats the fastfire bug?


Engaging into the fire animation while still moving forward. Enables you to nigh-instantly shoot.
9 Aug 2021, 22:08 PM
#234
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 733


No, that's why it's not a fucking artillery piece you clown. Your comparison is absolute trash

Allied rocket artillery has nothing to do with the ST. Drop your nonsense


STFU if you cannot even make an argument without insulting somebody.
9 Aug 2021, 22:15 PM
#235
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 513

Zyllen is a fat troll, leave him alone. Don't feed his nonsense. I bet if you turn around he might bring up the Scott or even demo charge as a reason why ST is not OP :D
9 Aug 2021, 22:19 PM
#236
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 733



No unit should consitently wipe mainline squads with little recourse, as thats antithetical to CoH gameplay. The game has seen continuous change to minimize that over time.


I have not seen many people lose squads to the ST but just like the avre the ST is very effective against unsupported AT guns and mg´s. Both units are going to cause rage anyway
9 Aug 2021, 22:26 PM
#237
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3233 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Aug 2021, 22:08 PMZyllen

STFU if you cannot even make an argument without insulting somebody.

Because the entire thread is filled with arguments and data that you are completely ignoring. Not sure what you expect
9 Aug 2021, 22:29 PM
#238
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 733

Zyllen is a fat troll, leave him alone. Don't feed his nonsense. I bet if you turn around he might bring up the Scott or even demo charge as a reason why ST is not OP :D


How childish and asinine. Do you always handle feedback this way?
9 Aug 2021, 22:59 PM
#239
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 479


Nuh, AVRE actually can fire accurately, but you need perfectly flat terrain for it.


Just tested the AVRE. You're right about it attempting to get to the target. Turns out the boom-bin is just really big and the arc of fire SUPER shallow (might not be one). I think the only fix needed for the AVRE is just give the launch some angle. It NEVER overshoots due to the shallow angle and chunky projectile. It is ABSOLUTELY rubbing on the terrain and detonating early. It does go almost full distance on perfectly flat terrain.

Give it a 45 degree firing angle and it will be consistent enough to actually use. 20 might be enough.

ST shoots from a higher position with about a 45 degree angle and they fixed the projectile hitbox so it doesnt get stuck on terrain.

That's if you want the AVRE to actually be full power. As seen by this entire thread, its probably too toxic to allow.
9 Aug 2021, 23:24 PM
#240
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 733


Because the entire thread is filled with arguments and data that you are completely ignoring. Not sure what you expect


Emotionally driven arguments do not count. I have been testing the ST for quite some time now and i find it to be very useful to use against artillery commanders, but against other play styles not so much. However artillery commanders are very popular against the OKW because the okw is less effective in dismantling the allied rearline compared to the ostheer. Until the ST came along. Most rage seems to be that tried and tested strats against the OKW suddenly didnt work any longer. But its not an i win button. Using an arty commander against the ST is the same s using an 152/kv8 against the panzer jeager commander.

As some people pointed out, it can be destroyed. Could it use some nerfs? Perhaps a reduction to the hp by 160 and 10 fuel increase but thats it. Some people already want to make this unit completely useless with their heavy-handed suggestions
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