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PTRS Conscripts and 7 man

14 Jun 2021, 10:48 AM
#1
avatar of Bakairu

Posts: 31

Shouldn't be mutually exclusive yes? Yes.
14 Jun 2021, 10:50 AM
#2
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17547 | Subs: 8

Why?
14 Jun 2021, 10:53 AM
#3
avatar of Bakairu

Posts: 31

14 Jun 2021, 10:54 AM
#4
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17547 | Subs: 8

Why not 100 fuel 222 or 50 fuel T-34?

If you can't argument your suggestion, why are you even anywhere near balance section?
14 Jun 2021, 11:03 AM
#5
avatar of Bakairu

Posts: 31

Okay. Now that ptrs have now been reworked only penals have benefitted from it. Cons still however opting for the ptrs upgrade their AI capability drop so low that their anti-infantry capabilities is non-existent that they would even lose to charging squads.

Take a look at guards for example having both mediocre anti-tank and anti-infantry capabilities with the dp28 upgrade improves them further. Why can't the same be done with PTRS cons? since ptrs cons are already non-existent and getting the upgrade is giving yourself a handicap.
14 Jun 2021, 11:24 AM
#6
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1910 | Subs: 2

I think there are already enough PTRS penalties, the recruits need to be given something else in this commander: DP-27 or bazooka or rifle grenades.
14 Jun 2021, 11:27 AM
#7
avatar of WAAAGH2000

Posts: 687

IMO should not have 7men conscripts,reduce reinforce cost and increase EXP should be passive after build T4 or T3 upgrade same as penal,default weapon upgrade should be single DP,or PPSH be default upgrade,DP for commander ability
15 Jun 2021, 05:09 AM
#8
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1865

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jun 2021, 10:50 AMKatitof
Why?


Six man Con squads are easily wiped. Even 7 man sometimes get wiped to a Walking Stuka. These upgrades shouldn't be exclusive. If a Con pick up any other weapon then I could see it blocking the MR upgrade but PTRS doesn't play the same. The PPSH upgrade would make 7 man Cons too powerful, but 7 man PTRS would be only slightly more usable.
15 Jun 2021, 13:09 PM
#9
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3233 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jun 2021, 11:03 AMBakairu
Okay. Now that ptrs have now been reworked only penals have benefitted from it. Cons still however opting for the ptrs upgrade their AI capability drop so low that their anti-infantry capabilities is non-existent that they would even lose to charging squads.

How is this different from most AT infantry? Most AT squads will lose to charging infantry

Ptrs cons come with camo which most AT squads don't have. Don't see how they need the 7th man
15 Jun 2021, 15:25 PM
#10
avatar of Geblobt

Posts: 187

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jun 2021, 05:09 AMGrumpy


Six man Con squads are easily wiped. Even 7 man sometimes get wiped to a Walking Stuka. These upgrades shouldn't be exclusive. If a Con pick up any other weapon then I could see it blocking the MR upgrade but PTRS doesn't play the same. The PPSH upgrade would make 7 man Cons too powerful, but 7 man PTRS would be only slightly more usable.


Easily wiped? They have the same exact HP like every other 6 Man squad against rocket arty, tank shells, etc. So a Cons squad dies as easily against Stuka/Werfer as a Guard, Penal or Paratrooper squad. On top of that they have a decent target size at vet 3 (better than Pfussies, Volks or Penals in that regard). On top of that is their base + reinforcement cost fairly cheap.

If you want to adjust ptrs cons its either their dmg (against inf or vehicles) or their utility. But their survivability is fine right now.
15 Jun 2021, 16:08 PM
#11
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3233 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jun 2021, 15:25 PMGeblobt

If you want to adjust ptrs cons its either their dmg (against inf or vehicles) or their utility. But their survivability is fine right now.

I would argue they're good enough on those points too. They already had the 3rd ptrs that was given to penals but they also have camo. On top of that they have vehicle detection to help setup ambushes

They keep hoorah, they get a stronger snare, if they got any buffs against infantry they would need to lose something
15 Jun 2021, 16:19 PM
#12
avatar of JPA32

Posts: 178

I don't think PTRS Cons need to be buffed in anyway since they're quite effective already, but the doctrine they're in is kind of lackluster and doesn't really provide much outside of the PTRS Cons meaning it gets kicked to the wayside for more potent and powerful doctrines that just offer more.
15 Jun 2021, 20:28 PM
#13
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 307

...they get a stronger snare...


I agree it's stronger, situationally. The downside is that it doesn't lock like other AT abilities. So it's only very strong in an ambush. Or after using a sightblocker.
16 Jun 2021, 00:19 AM
#14
avatar of Kasarov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 413 | Subs: 2

I don't agree with allowing 7-man and PTRS. 7-man is insanely powerful; camo AND cover bonus? Have you thought about how the cover bonus would increase the DPS of the PTRS? It would also make it more difficult to camo behind smaller objects due to larger squad sizes which could be frustrating for the user.

If we're looking to buff this ability, I think a nice QoL improvement would be to give PTRS Penals the same camo and AT snare as PTRS conscripts, but only in this doctrine to promote T1 builds as well, similar to the upcoming Infantry Repair Kit with Penals getting repair option too.
16 Jun 2021, 01:20 AM
#15
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3233 | Subs: 1


I agree it's stronger, situationally. The downside is that it doesn't lock like other AT abilities. So it's only very strong in an ambush. Or after using a sightblocker.

Right, which is why they get camo and vehicle detection. It's definitely situational, but they have all the gear to setup that situation. They keep hoorah with the upgrade too

The doctrine also allows cons to plant light AT mines with or without the ptrs upgrade, which can also be used to setup the snare
16 Jun 2021, 02:32 AM
#16
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5268

Yea I think the pair should be exclusive. Choices people! Choices!
16 Jun 2021, 02:43 AM
#17
avatar of Lewka

Posts: 298

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jun 2021, 00:19 AMKasarov
I don't agree with allowing 7-man and PTRS. 7-man is insanely powerful; camo AND cover bonus? Have you thought about how the cover bonus would increase the DPS of the PTRS? It would also make it more difficult to camo behind smaller objects due to larger squad sizes which could be frustrating for the user.

If we're looking to buff this ability, I think a nice QoL improvement would be to give PTRS Penals the same camo and AT snare as PTRS conscripts, but only in this doctrine to promote T1 builds as well, similar to the upcoming Infantry Repair Kit with Penals getting repair option too.


Hey that sounds like a pretty cool idea. Then the Soviet player can decide between which mainline they which to use for the doctrine instead of only conscripts
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