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russian armor

I think now ptrs penals are a valid at squad

12 Jun 2021, 18:58 PM
#1
avatar of DerKuhlmann

Posts: 448

They lose at satchel
12 Jun 2021, 21:16 PM
#2
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

Did they magically got large alpha damage with large pen instead of doing reliable chip damage?

No?

Then satchel stays.
12 Jun 2021, 21:40 PM
#3
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1844 | Subs: 1

PTRS buff primarily helped them versus light vehicles and require multiple squads to truly threaten mediums. Generally you only get satcheled if you fuck up or the other player makes good use of sight blockers - either way I think it's fair game. Think of it this way - if AT satchels were that good then why don't people put Zooks on Calvary Rifles? Zook Calavary's would have better AT then PTRS Penals...
12 Jun 2021, 23:06 PM
#4
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1460

Let me guess, you lost your heavy tank to a 2x penals when you rushed into them and they managed to get off the super low range satchel. Then you got snared and lost a lot of HP on the tank. As for the "valid AT squad". You most likely lost a light vehicle to them, maybe made another one and lost that too and then said "penals OP" or sth.
Am I right?
13 Jun 2021, 03:27 AM
#5
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1905

Let me guess, you lost your heavy tank to a 2x penals when you rushed into them and they managed to get off the super low range satchel. Then you got snared and lost a lot of HP on the tank. As for the "valid AT squad". You most likely lost a light vehicle to them, maybe made another one and lost that too and then said "penals OP" or sth.
Am I right?


I think you have the events correct, but not in the right order. He lost his first 222, then his second. After that, he dove in his Vet0 KT on 3x PTRS penals because he going to show the Russians who is Boss. Unfortunately, he also did some mine sweeping with his KT followed by getting satcheled. It was made a little worse by clicking slightly too far back and having the KT waddle three times instead of simply reversing. The next thread will be about pathing.
13 Jun 2021, 07:14 AM
#6
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 642

Think of it this way - if AT satchels were that good then why don't people put Zooks on Calvary Rifles?


Honestly I would rather take the PTRS over the Bazookas. PTRS doesn't do as much damage but its more reliable. Bazookas love to hit random terrain objects half the time or just miss entirely. It would be a dream if Bazookas were half as reliable as Panzershreks. Thankfully USF have the Jackson so the Bazooka is not really needed.
13 Jun 2021, 17:21 PM
#7
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1844 | Subs: 1



Honestly I would rather take the PTRS over the Bazookas. PTRS doesn't do as much damage but its more reliable. Bazookas love to hit random terrain objects half the time or just miss entirely. It would be a dream if Bazookas were half as reliable as Panzershreks. Thankfully USF have the Jackson so the Bazooka is not really needed.


I guess it's a matter of preference. Reliable hits for at least deflection damage or less accurate but better chance to penetrate for full damage. Elite bazookas would be an exception though I'd say. :)
13 Jun 2021, 17:25 PM
#8
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

It's not about reliability it's about burst damage. Ptrs are great now, but the satchel is there so they are a threat against a vehicle driving over them and pushing them around. Unlike a shrek or a Zook or a piat the damage from a being able to fire once isn't threatening enough and the PTRS needs to be able to keep units from pushing it.

Guards have button, ptrs cons have the nade volley and penals have the satchel. All 3 do the same thing- keep the enemy from away from the squad so they can actually deal some damage.
13 Jun 2021, 17:43 PM
#9
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13188 | Subs: 1

AT satchel should either change to do less damage so that it does not cause engine damage on its own or should keep the damage and lose the engine damage.

On the other hand Penals/T1 are badly designed and simply need a redesign.
13 Jun 2021, 18:02 PM
#10
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jun 2021, 17:43 PMVipper
AT satchel should either change to do less damage so that it does not cause engine damage on its own or should keep the damage and lose the engine damage.

On the other hand Penals/T1 are badly designed and simply need a redesign.


The only reason it exists is SPECIFICALLY to deal enough damage to inflict engine damage.

And stop repeating that line like some kind of broken record, they were redesigned.
Unless you want to give them 5-8 sec time between shots and 80-120 dmg per shot with high penetration, they will stay as is.
13 Jun 2021, 18:56 PM
#11
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13188 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jun 2021, 18:02 PMKatitof


The only reason it exists is SPECIFICALLY to deal enough damage to inflict engine damage.

And it since they now have 3 PTRS and do sufficient damage it simply should not cause engine damage on its own.

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jun 2021, 18:02 PMKatitof

And stop repeating that line like some kind of broken record, they were redesigned.

Not there are not redesigned.

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jun 2021, 18:02 PMKatitof

Unless you want to give them 5-8 sec time between shots and 80-120 dmg per shot with high penetration, they will stay as is.

Once more you are going thru your rabbit and I am not not bother responding.

PTRS having 80/120 damage is simply not going to happen.
13 Jun 2021, 18:58 PM
#12
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jun 2021, 18:56 PMVipper

And it since they now have 3 PTRS and do sufficient damage it simply should not cause engine damage on its own.

Not according to balance team explanation on why 3rd PTRS was added.


Not there are not redesigned.

Are you having a stroke there? Should I call 112?


Once more you are going thru your rabbit and I am not not bother responding.

PTRS having 80/120 damage is simply not going to happen.

Therefore, your imaginary redesign you are so obsessed with is not going to happen, because that's the only way AT satchel would lose any of its aspects.
13 Jun 2021, 19:02 PM
#13
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13188 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jun 2021, 18:58 PMKatitof

Not according to balance team explanation on why 3rd PTRS was added.

PLs stop making thing up. You do not talk on behalf of the MOD team if you want to provide your own opinion do so but do not pretend that what you post has anything to do with mod team.

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jun 2021, 18:58 PMKatitof

Are you having a stroke there? Should I call 112?

Therefore, your imaginary redesign you are so obsessed with is not going to happen, because that's the only way AT satchel would lose any of its aspects.

PLS stop you with silly line of (non) arguments.
13 Jun 2021, 19:09 PM
#14
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jun 2021, 19:02 PMVipper

PLs stop making thing up. You do not talk on behalf of the MOD team if you want to provide your own opinion do so but do not pretend that what you post has anything to do with mod team.


https://www.coh2.org/topic/108011/commander-update-beta-2021-soviet-feedback/post/861569


And tripple PTRS was introduced to give Penals more alpha damage against lights. It hardly had anything to do with fighting tanks, let alone heavies/superheavies. They have the AT satchel for that.


Go choke on it.


I love how you can bring up a post from 2013 when it fits your narrative, but are not aware of very recent ones at all if they don't.
13 Jun 2021, 19:30 PM
#15
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 609

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jun 2021, 19:09 PMKatitof
Go choke on it.


:rofl:
13 Jun 2021, 19:53 PM
#16
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13188 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jun 2021, 19:09 PMKatitof


https://www.coh2.org/topic/108011/commander-update-beta-2021-soviet-feedback/post/861569


Go choke on it.


I love how you can bring up a post from 2013 when it fits your narrative, but are not aware of very recent ones at all if they don't.

And that has simply nothing to do with with AT satchel being a one shot snare vs mediums.

And here are the patch notes:

"Penal Battalion

Penal Battalions have received a number of changes to improve their performance. Some of their late game accuracy has been shifted to received accuracy to improve their survivability on top of the previously mentioned global bonuses provided by Mobilize Reserves. Their initial cost and reinforce time has also been reduced to better reflect their numbers and initial performance. In addition, the PTRS upgrade has been altered to serve as a true AT package. Penals with AT Rifles should now be able to ward away most early game light vehicles while being more potent against heavier armor. AI effectiveness with the PTRS rifles will maintain the same DPS as previously, though, the AT rifles will not be as consistent as the more accurate and faster-firing SVT against infantry."
13 Jun 2021, 20:05 PM
#17
avatar of miragefla
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jun 2021, 17:43 PMVipper
AT satchel should either change to do less damage so that it does not cause engine damage on its own or should keep the damage and lose the engine damage.


Satchel is fine, if you are in range to be satchelled, you either screwed up or sent your tank around a shot blocker first. It's short enough range that any vehicle can backpedal from the squad if they're not in the range to begin with on a unit that lacks any movement bonuses.

The AT Penal squad already gives up a 290 MP squad and munitions to be able to fend of LVs and at least have some plink damage against heavier vehicles. Satchels are their way to remain as a threat later into the game given their AI isn't particularly strong.
13 Jun 2021, 20:06 PM
#18
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13188 | Subs: 1



Satchel is fine, if you are in range to be satchelled, you either screwed up or sent your tank around a shot blocker first.

The AT Penal squad already gives up a 290 MP squad and munitions to be able to fend of LVs and at least have some plink damage against heavier vehicles. Satchels are their way to remain as a threat later into the game given their AI isn't particularly strong.

Then AT Stormtroppers should also get satchel for the same reason.

In addition the design that has Penal should be superior early AI infatry that can transition to anti light/medium and even anti heavy Tank unit is simply flawed.

T1/Penal simply need a redesign.
13 Jun 2021, 20:55 PM
#19
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jun 2021, 20:06 PMVipper

Then AT Stormtroppers should also get satchel for the same reason.

In addition the design that has Penal should be superior early AI infatry that can transition to anti light/medium and even anti heavy Tank unit is simply flawed.

T1/Penal simply need a redesign.

There, 2 different balance members told you directly and indirectly how clueless and wrong you are.

Can you cope already and accept that you're wrong and I'm right here?

Oh, and one faction internal balance has nothing to do with opposing faction internal balance.
If you think STs should get satchel, go make a thread about it.

Every single person in this community knows about your rage boner against penals, you're not even attempting to hide it under your pretend objectivity for a long time.
13 Jun 2021, 20:59 PM
#20
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13188 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jun 2021, 20:55 PMKatitof

There, 2 different balance members told you directly and indirectly how clueless and wrong you are.

Can you cope already and accept that you're wrong and I'm right here?

No member of the mod has said that I am "clueless" nor any member of mod said that you are right.

Contrary to what you might think the world does revolve around you.

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jun 2021, 20:55 PMKatitof

Oh, and one faction internal balance has nothing to do with opposing faction internal balance.
If you think STs should get satchel, go make a thread about it.

Every single person in this community knows about your rage boner against penals, you're not even attempting to hide it under your pretend objectivity for a long time.

Many member of the community agree that Penal/T1 is badly designed so you might as well quite trying to present this if it was only my opinion.

Have a nice journey in wonderland
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