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Should stealth be normalized

3 May 2021, 18:43 PM
#1
avatar of DerKuhlmann

Posts: 402

Like every stealth unit getting commandoes stealth?
Or would it be too op?
3 May 2021, 19:18 PM
#2
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5101

Commando stealth should go and static stealth should be the norm. Not the other way around. A timed ability at most that allows cover to cover camo but this high impact units being invisible as they sprint across the map if shell holes allow is terrible, especially given the poor saturation of camo spotting abilities and units.
3 May 2021, 19:19 PM
#3
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17316 | Subs: 8

The sole fact that ost Grens, PGs and HMGs have stealth upgrade should be sufficient alone to point out how stupid idea that is.

And as hilarious as it would be, believe me, you do NOT want to see dank hunters cons sneaking up un your vehicle with AT nade barrage.
3 May 2021, 19:32 PM
#4
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 547

No, I do not want to have to go every match with IR StG 44 Obers because sniper stealth is everywhere. Nvm Falls'o'doom vaporising your men with a bundled.
3 May 2021, 22:06 PM
#5
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 318

Stealth IS normalized. There is effectively 2 forms of stealth, given to 2 different types of units. Static stealth is given to ranged 'recon' troops. Falls, pathfinders, and JLIs are the best examples. Moving stealth is given to SMG ambush troops. Stormtroopers, Commandos, Partibois. The exception is Snipers, but Snipers are effectively ranged ambush troops; snipers are weird. The level of stealth is dependent on what the unit needs to do its job. SMG ambush troops need to get on top of the enemy. They MUST get close, so they get moving stealth so they CAN get close. Other SMG units tend to have other tools for the same shtick; smoke, armor, rollerskates. Ranged stealth troops are for scouting and picking good fights.

4 May 2021, 03:03 AM
#6
avatar of didimegadudu

Posts: 28

all stealth units (snipers, luch, soviets ATs, raketen, commando, falls, bomb tank from Overwatch) should be 75% opague, so that we can al least see a silhoutte or dim figures if u look closely and not completely invisible like The Predator.
MMX
4 May 2021, 08:10 AM
#7
avatar of MMX

Posts: 661 | Subs: 1

Stealth IS normalized. There is effectively 2 forms of stealth, given to 2 different types of units. Static stealth is given to ranged 'recon' troops. Falls, pathfinders, and JLIs are the best examples. Moving stealth is given to SMG ambush troops. Stormtroopers, Commandos, Partibois. The exception is Snipers, but Snipers are effectively ranged ambush troops; snipers are weird. The level of stealth is dependent on what the unit needs to do its job. SMG ambush troops need to get on top of the enemy. They MUST get close, so they get moving stealth so they CAN get close. Other SMG units tend to have other tools for the same shtick; smoke, armor, rollerskates. Ranged stealth troops are for scouting and picking good fights.



+1

the only inconsistency that kind of bothers me is that raks can't move when cloaked while soviet AT guns with ambush camo can (albeit at a snail's pace). still a rather minor issue, if any at all.
4 May 2021, 08:15 AM
#8
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17316 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post4 May 2021, 08:10 AMMMX


+1

the only inconsistency that kind of bothers me is that raks can't move when cloaked while soviet AT guns with ambush camo can (albeit at a snail's pace). still a rather minor issue, if any at all.

Makes sense that doctrinal camo is better then stock one + it could move for years and we all know why it can't anymore.
4 May 2021, 08:29 AM
#9
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2124 | Subs: 2


Makes sense that doctrinal camo is better then stock one + it could move for years and we all know why it can't anymore.

The Rak had decent speed when cloaked back then, the ZiS was always slow af.
I doubt that a Raketenwerfer moving at the speed of a cloaked ZiS would be a huge issue. It still couldn't do anything that was causing issues back then.
4 May 2021, 08:45 AM
#10
avatar of Latch

Posts: 734

'Mando stealth is OP, incredibly so when they can throw nades out of camo, however the issue is how squishy the unit is when its not up close so it needs either 2 things to happen:

A) Squads move at a slower (half?) speed when in camo mode.
2) Switch to other camo modes but RA reduced so they dont get melted before they even get close.

Or bonus:

Keep as is, remove nades ability in camo and increase detection range when the squad is moving in camo and keep as is when they are stationary.
4 May 2021, 09:09 AM
#11
avatar of C3 TOOTH

Posts: 151

jump backJump back to quoted post4 May 2021, 08:45 AMLatch
'Mando stealth is OP, incredibly so when they can throw nades out of camo, however the issue is how squishy the unit is when its not up close so it needs either 2 things to happen:

A) Squads move at a slower (half?) speed when in camo mode.
2) Switch to other camo modes but RA reduced so they dont get melted before they even get close.

Or bonus:

Keep as is, remove nades ability in camo and increase detection range when the squad is moving in camo and keep as is when they are stationary.


I agree, there should be a stealth mode ability for all stealth units.
They can move like any infantry without ability, no camo.
If ability activated, they will move 50% speed when they're in camo.

Commandos just running at normal speed while in camo through Land mattress fired field is a pain.
4 May 2021, 10:57 AM
#12
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17316 | Subs: 8


The Rak had decent speed when cloaked back then, the ZiS was always slow af.
I doubt that a Raketenwerfer moving at the speed of a cloaked ZiS would be a huge issue. It still couldn't do anything that was causing issues back then.

Apparently, it would, given first rak camo nerf was speed reduction to 25%, so we've already tried that on live.
4 May 2021, 15:37 PM
#13
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2124 | Subs: 2


Apparently, it would, given first rak camo nerf was speed reduction to 25%, so we've already tried that on live.

Maybe I remember incorrectly, but didn't the first iteration already completely remove any movement while cloaked?

That's at least what I vaguely remembered and also the first public iteration (checked the previews again). Or was there an internal version prior to this? How did the Rak look like back then? Because it got a lot of changes.
The pre-2019 Rak ran around the battlefield like crazy.
4 May 2021, 15:47 PM
#14
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5101

jump backJump back to quoted post4 May 2021, 08:10 AMMMX


+1

the only inconsistency that kind of bothers me is that raks can't move when cloaked while soviet AT guns with ambush camo can (albeit at a snail's pace). still a rather minor issue, if any at all.
. It's only an issue because the rak can retreat. If it could move you could infiltrate and exfiltrate with lower risks. Creeping raks was awful....
4 May 2021, 19:15 PM
#15
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17316 | Subs: 8


Maybe I remember incorrectly, but didn't the first iteration already completely remove any movement while cloaked?

That's at least what I vaguely remembered and also the first public iteration (checked the previews again). Or was there an internal version prior to this? How did the Rak look like back then? Because it got a lot of changes.
The pre-2019 Rak ran around the battlefield like crazy.

It was, vet0 immobile, vet1 25% speed.

Then it was changed to always immobile, 5th man, range increase and the list goes on.
4 May 2021, 19:19 PM
#16
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2124 | Subs: 2


It was, vet0 immobile, vet1 25% speed.

Then it was changed to always immobile, 5th man, range increase and the list goes on.

But was there any comment on why?
The Rak got overnerfed in the first iterations and buffed back up. The change might not be due to the Raketenwerfer being OP at vet1 with movement but because they just thought a different vet would fit it better.
4 May 2021, 19:25 PM
#17
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17316 | Subs: 8


But was there any comment on why?

In regards to camo:
Yes, it was cheesy creeping up on rocket arty and bailing using retreat.

In regards to all the changes it got - they tried to make it into regular ATG while keeping it being rak, leaving cheesy plays like camo creeping out of equation.
4 May 2021, 19:31 PM
#18
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 11650 | Subs: 1


But was there any comment on why?
The Rak got overnerfed in the first iterations and buffed back up. The change might not be due to the Raketenwerfer being OP at vet1 with movement but because they just thought a different vet would fit it better.



RW used to be able at reduced speed at vet 0 and get a bonuses 100% at vet 1. Then that bonuses was reduced to 25%

The next step was to make it immobile:

Raketenwerfer 43

Due to the frustrating mechanics of its short-range for the user and its camouflage for the opponent, the Raketenwerfer is being adjusted to be perform more like standard anti-tank guns. Range and crew size is being improved, while the camouflage now only works when stationary and requires veterancy 1. The retreat function has also been removed from this unit.

Range from 50 to 55.
Crew size from 4 to 5.
Camouflage ability now locks the unit in place unless revealed. Cannot move, but can rotate.
Requires veterancy 1 for camouflage.
Retreat function removed.
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