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KV1 nerfs, When?

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ZeroZeroNi
16 Apr 2021, 15:31 PM
#61
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2021, 12:40 PMelchino7

Edit: From Dane's channel. Last 10 1v1 OH vs SU.

1: 222 > T70 > Command PIV > T34
2: 222 > T70 > PIV > T34
3: 222 > Cmd PIV > T34
4: 250 HT > T70 > Ostwind > T34
5: FHT > 222 > T70 > PIV > Stug > Kv1
6: 222 > T70 > T34 > PIV
7: M5 Assault Guard > T70 > PIV > PIV > PW > M4C
8: 222 > T70 > PIV > B4
9: 222 > M5 Quad > PIV > M4C
10: 222 > T70 > PIV > KV1

Ok, in these games there is a distinct lack of t34/76's.
In one example there is a p4 before t34 and in another a t34 before a p4 both with no indication of the time difference or if the game was neck and neck or slightly one sided.

I think I remember the 7th game, I distinctly remember 2 tellers 1 destroying the Ass Guard+M5 and the 2nd one killing the t70. You can say that this was not an even game at all and the ost player had a significant advantage.

I don't think these support your argument.
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general_gawain
16 Apr 2021, 16:25 PM
#62
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2021, 05:28 AMjagd wölfe
It could be made to require an extra ad hoc Tier 4 side tech upgrade.
Actually I thought of this originally for the OKW Panzer 4 in Tier 3 for Ostheer, similar to how the Soviets can pay extra fuel to unlock 7 men at Tier 3.

I always thought T4 has to split in two parts, a first one that costs about 2/3 of the current T4 with T34/76 only, plus an additional upgrade which cost 1/3 of the current T4 and maybe 5-15 fuel more for unlocking the other tanks and Katjusha. The chance to get a T34/76 considerably earlier than a PZIV if you skip T70 should alone delay a possible KV-1 or KV-8 to a later moment. You are sacrifing early T70 and late KV-1/KV-8 powerspike for a medium T34/76 powerspike.


jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2021, 12:40 PMelchino7
What? The general dynamic for an even game is that OH slightly pushes ahead when they get a T2 LV and then SU recovers when they get a T70 out. Then a PIV arrives and it equalises with whatever vehicle soviet decides to go for.

Exactly, pretty every game like that unless Soviet/Ostheer pushed the other one from the map.
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porkloin
16 Apr 2021, 20:09 PM
#63
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2021, 12:40 PMelchino7


What? The general dynamic for an even game is that OH slightly pushes ahead when they get a T2 LV and then SU recovers when they get a T70 out. Then a PIV arrives and it equalises with whatever vehicle soviet decides to go for.


The general dynamic prior to LV is SOVs take OST cutoff, or even push them into the base however. This is because SOV is able to field their infantry much faster, and map control favors high health units.

FWIW all this arguing over subjective criteria is exactly why I hate the claim p4 comes first, and I'm only continuing to demonstrate the toxicity of it.
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Katitof
16 Apr 2021, 20:12 PM
#64
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2021, 20:09 PMporkloin
This is because SOV is able to field their infantry much faster, and map control favors high health units.

How? HMG and gren will be ready faster then double con and from there its about equal.
If you don't open with HMG, you're not playing ost right.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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porkloin
16 Apr 2021, 20:29 PM
#65
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2021, 20:12 PMKatitof

How? HMG and gren will be ready faster then double con and from there its about equal.
If you don't open with HMG, you're not playing ost right.


MG 42 has around a 35 second build time. Engis around 17 second, cons around 25 second.

OST has to build t1 for grens tying up pios.

Either you have no idea what you're talking about, or are intentionally lying as you could merely watch one single OST-SOV matchup to see that SOV consistently maintains a one squad advantage over OST in the early game.
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Katitof
16 Apr 2021, 20:35 PM
#66
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2021, 20:29 PMporkloin


MG 42 has around a 35 second build time. Engis around 17 second, cons around 25 second.

OST has to build t1 for grens tying up pios.

Either you have no idea what you're talking about, or are intentionally lying as you could merely watch one single OST-SOV matchup to see that SOV consistently maintains a one squad advantage over OST in the early game.

No one opens with CE, unless you build T1, which means axis will have even more infantry sooner in comparison.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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porkloin
16 Apr 2021, 20:39 PM
#67
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2021, 20:35 PMKatitof

No one opens with CE, unless you build T1, which means axis will have even more infantry sooner in comparison.


Thank you for toxic argument seal of approval kaitof. I am deeply honored.
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pvtgooner
16 Apr 2021, 21:00 PM
#68
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Just screen for your paks with your infantry. KV8 is a high value shock unit, just like brummbar or(in a light vehicle sense, the flame HT). It's going to be strong for a few minutes in its time window but it wont completely push you off the field entirely unless you were already on the ropes.

If my USF self can kill sturmtigers and brummbars with combined arms approach, surely ost is able to do so against a KV-8 with more effective(but more expensive) tools.
jump backJump back to quoted post7 Dec 2019, 19:44 PMmrgame2


Panzer tactician is no different than a skill shot. Hardly a "Free" get out of jail card.
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elchino7
16 Apr 2021, 22:02 PM
#69
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2021, 20:35 PMKatitof

No one opens with CE, unless you build T1, which means axis will have even more infantry sooner in comparison.


2x CE is not that uncommon. It's just a variation instead of going 4 Cons.

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2021, 20:09 PMporkloin
The general dynamic prior to LV is SOVs take OST cutoff, or even push them into the base however. This is because SOV is able to field their infantry much faster, and map control favors high health units.


For the first 3 mins of the game. Because it equalises with the higher mp pool OH has at the beginning of the game.

And before lights arrive it reverses because tech expenditure is frontloaded towards the early game for SU (after 5 units, you are thinking of what unit to transition into plus T2 + Grenades + Medics)
My controls weren't working
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And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

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Katitof
16 Apr 2021, 22:03 PM
#70
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2021, 22:02 PMelchino7


2x CE is not that uncommon. It's just a variation instead of going 4 Cons.

2x CE is not uncommon, getting 2nd CE before 3rd con if you don't open with T1 or T2 is.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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C3 TOOTH
17 Apr 2021, 07:30 AM
#71
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2021, 20:29 PMporkloin


MG 42 has around a 35 second build time. Engis around 17 second, cons around 25 second.

OST has to build t1 for grens tying up pios.

Either you have no idea what you're talking about, or are intentionally lying as you could merely watch one single OST-SOV matchup to see that SOV consistently maintains a one squad advantage over OST in the early game.


1st Con: 25s
2nd Con: 25s
Soviet has CE,Con,Con at 50s

Pion can instantly build T1 early game: 10s
1st MG: 35s
Wait for enough mp to build Gren: 55s
Ost has Pion,MG,Gren at 53s
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blvckdream
17 Apr 2021, 13:48 PM
#72
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2021, 20:09 PMporkloin


The general dynamic prior to LV is SOVs take OST cutoff, or even push them into the base however.


No that is definitely not the general dynamic.
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T.R. Stormjäger
17 Apr 2021, 13:53 PM
#73
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2021, 20:09 PMporkloin


The general dynamic prior to LV is SOVs take OST cutoff, or even push them into the base however.


l2p issue
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porkloin
17 Apr 2021, 22:37 PM
#74
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jump backJump back to quoted post17 Apr 2021, 13:53 PMT.R. Stormjäger


l2p issue


Clearly something you need to do.




Here we see: stormjaeger loses his fuel point at 3 minutes. Briefly connects to opponents fuel around 5 minutes for a few seconds before being cutoff. Shortly before his 222 arrives at around 7 minutes he has only 2 standard points connected, and has had maybe 30 seconds of fuel point control for the past 4 minutes.
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T.R. Stormjäger
18 Apr 2021, 01:33 AM
#75
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jump backJump back to quoted post17 Apr 2021, 22:37 PMporkloin


Clearly something you need to do.




Here we see: stormjaeger loses his fuel point at 3 minutes. Briefly connects to opponents fuel around 5 minutes for a few seconds before being cutoff. Shortly before his 222 arrives at around 7 minutes he has only 2 standard points connected, and has had maybe 30 seconds of fuel point control for the past 4 minutes.


Wot? What does a random game I played have to do with anything? I was lv18 Ost in 1v1 for a while, I understand how the faction plays.

Wanna compare ranks? :D I haven’t seen you in automatch.

I play Soviets as well, just fyi.
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porkloin
18 Apr 2021, 01:54 AM
#76
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jump backJump back to quoted post18 Apr 2021, 01:33 AMT.R. Stormjäger


Wot? What does a random game I played have to do with anything? I was lv18 Ost in 1v1 for a while, I understand how the faction plays.

Wanna compare ranks? :D I haven’t seen you in automatch.

I play Soviets as well, just fyi.


You're more than welcome to submit a game you feel demonstrates that OST has an advantage vs SOV before 222 or other lights.

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Katitof
18 Apr 2021, 08:03 AM
#77
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jump backJump back to quoted post18 Apr 2021, 01:54 AMporkloin


You're more than welcome to submit a game you feel demonstrates that OST has an advantage vs SOV before 222 or other lights.


When the hell was that a point of discussion at any time?
Some nublet claimed ost is DISADVANTAGED, which was proven wrong.

Also, to the argument that "ost will generally have 1 less squad then soviets in early game", that game you posted shows exactly why and how that is an utter bullshit.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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T.R. Stormjäger
18 Apr 2021, 09:28 AM
#78
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jump backJump back to quoted post18 Apr 2021, 01:54 AMporkloin


You're more than welcome to submit a game you feel demonstrates that OST has an advantage vs SOV before 222 or other lights.



You’re more than welcome to answer the questions. You went through the trouble of finding my game on youtube, now go through the trouble of answering.
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Protos Angelus
18 Apr 2021, 13:06 PM
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jump backJump back to quoted post18 Apr 2021, 01:54 AMporkloin


You're more than welcome to submit a game you feel demonstrates that OST has an advantage vs SOV before 222 or other lights.



I've goten Storm in complete random 3v3s and each time won. Cherry picking one game doesn't really prove anything. You have a perfect 100% WR with each faction? Pulling arguments out of your ass doesn't really do much you know? Well, unless you're 10 y.o. then it's all there is.
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porkloin
18 Apr 2021, 21:43 PM
#80
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jump backJump back to quoted post18 Apr 2021, 13:06 PMProtos Angelus


I've goten Storm in complete random 3v3s and each time won. Cherry picking one game doesn't really prove anything. You have a perfect 100% WR with each faction? Pulling arguments out of your ass doesn't really do much you know? Well, unless you're 10 y.o. then it's all there is.


He doesn't even have a bad opening lol. It's a neutral to good in an OST/SOV matchup.
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