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Commander Update Beta 2021 - British Feedback

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6 Apr 2021, 16:19 PM
#121
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Apr 2021, 15:39 PMVipper

I do not think it work that way. RE do little damage long range. With Boys they would contribute without having to move into the fray.



As i said, that far dmg (the "contribute" in your sentence) must be noticeable or noone will use them, but then if it is noticeable on sapper it will create issues on section, so far and so on. while still scale poorly due to to utilities.
6 Apr 2021, 17:27 PM
#122
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



As i said, that far dmg (the "contribute" in your sentence) must be noticeable or noone will use them, but then if it is noticeable on sapper it will create issues on section, so far and so on. while still scale poorly due to to utilities.

I would equip my Ro.E. over Piat. More AI DPS than Piats, longer range and decent, reliable AT, but that might be just my personal preference.
7 Apr 2021, 08:52 AM
#123
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3104 | Subs: 2

Commandos and Infiltration Commandos should get some difference between them. Yes, they are both commandos, but there is next to no difference between them.
7 Apr 2021, 08:57 AM
#124
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

Commandos and Infiltration Commandos should get some difference between them. Yes, they are both commandos, but there is next to no difference between them.

The only difference between them is the name and deployment method.
Other then that, its the exact same squad.

Does it really need to be more different tho?
7 Apr 2021, 08:59 AM
#125
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

Commandos and Infiltration Commandos should get some difference between them. Yes, they are both commandos, but there is next to no difference between them.

There 3 type of commandos:
Insertion
Infiltration
build

It would be nice for these to be different, an AT commando already exist and one could have commandos with Thompson with no camo or 4 men long range specialist.

Although if the MOD team goes ahead with the Raid Infantry section it might be better if the simply scarp infiltration commandos.
7 Apr 2021, 09:10 AM
#126
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3104 | Subs: 2


The only difference between them is the name and deployment method.
Other then that, its the exact same squad.

Does it really need to be more different tho?

Maybe there is some (de)capture rate too, I don't know. But nothing that you would really notice gameplay wise.

They are already two different units with two different commander abilities. Everything suggests that there should be at least a small difference.


jump backJump back to quoted post7 Apr 2021, 08:59 AMVipper

There 3 type of commandos:
Insertion
Infiltration
build

It would be nice for these to be different, an AT commando already exist and one could have commandos with Thompson with no camo or 4 men long range specialist.

Although if the MOD team goes ahead with the Raid Infantry section it might be better if the simply scarp infiltration commandos.

Maybe, but I find it difficult again to fit a new unit properly. Long range is covered by IS, short range at least a little bit by the officer squad. Doctrinally by commandos. They have an AT unit via doctrine, so another one would be redundant as well. Don't know if another long range unit fits, since IS are already very good. I think some kind of real recon unit would be a gap to fill. UKF has many half-baked solutions in that regard.
7 Apr 2021, 09:13 AM
#127
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8


Maybe there is some (de)capture rate too, I don't know. But nothing that you would really notice gameplay wise.

They are already two different units with two different commander abilities. Everything suggests that there should be at least a small difference.

I suppose if something like that was supposed to happen, it would need to come from abilities, like paras and support paras are.
7 Apr 2021, 09:34 AM
#128
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3104 | Subs: 2


I suppose if something like that was supposed to happen, it would need to come from abilities, like paras and support paras are.

Potentially yes, but if we find a functional niche there is no reason to not redesign one of the units to fit into it.
7 Apr 2021, 09:41 AM
#129
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8


Potentially yes, but if we find a functional niche there is no reason to not redesign one of the units to fit into it.

What niche that would be tho?
Obviously, AT niche is filled by BOYs and I don't see the need for "elite piats", especially on infiltration unit.
Long range is already covered by them picking up brens. CQC is self explanatory, so there is no combat niche they would need to fill and the only non combat that's missing is special mine? Booby trap?
7 Apr 2021, 09:47 AM
#130
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3104 | Subs: 2


What niche that would be tho?
Obviously, AT niche is filled by BOYs and I don't see the need for "elite piats", especially on infiltration unit.
Long range is already covered by them picking up brens. CQC is self explanatory, so there is no combat niche they would need to fill and the only non combat that's missing is special mine? Booby trap?

As I said it is indeed hard to find one.
I could imagine a real recon unit since UKF does only get the pyro upgrade. Alternatively, a sniper like unit like Paths or JLI are possible too.
7 Apr 2021, 11:03 AM
#131
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


....
Maybe, but I find it difficult again to fit a new unit properly. Long range is covered by IS, short range at least a little bit by the officer squad. Doctrinally by commandos. They have an AT unit via doctrine, so another one would be redundant as well. Don't know if another long range unit fits, since IS are already very good. I think some kind of real recon unit would be a gap to fill. UKF has many half-baked solutions in that regard.

I personally find Piat Commandos viable, if they start with 5 rifles and 2 piat that they can put way.

I also find 4 men commands with V-k/Thompson viable solution.

If one want to go"recon" type maybe one can experiment with "De Lisle carbine" (if that thing works) and add an ability that allow to snipe weapon team only.

Pip
7 Apr 2021, 17:07 PM
#132
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594


Potentially yes, but if we find a functional niche there is no reason to not redesign one of the units to fit into it.


There are a few niches remaining that they /could/ fill. (The question is whether they /should/)

Hand them Thompsons with a Pgren STG profile, and you have what would basically amount to an UKF flavoured Pgren. (Or give them weaker Thompson/stgs, and then give them a couple of the new Vickers Ks)

Give them rifles and a scoped Enfield and give UKF a Light Infantry squad (Though they'd be the only faction with one and a sniper.

Stick an officer in the squad to replace one of the commandoes, and give him a bunch of utility/scouting abilities. (Allow the squad to immobilise itself and extend sight in a cone, for example. With or without retaining stealth)

Again, it all depends on whether UKF could be argued to need/want anything like this.



7 Apr 2021, 21:11 PM
#133
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

What was the reason for removing the mortar from UKF? When I saw that change I assumed it was because it'd been made nondoctrinal, but it's literally just been swapped out for a loiter.

Why? Isn't filling the unnecessary holes in the UKF roster the point of that commander?
8 Apr 2021, 02:15 AM
#134
avatar of Aarotron

Posts: 563

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Apr 2021, 21:11 PMLago
What was the reason for removing the mortar from UKF? When I saw that change I assumed it was because it'd been made nondoctrinal, but it's literally just been swapped out for a loiter.

Why? Isn't filling the unnecessary holes in the UKF roster the point of that commander?


It was to provide smoke and occasional barrage mostly in 1v1 scenarios as originql 350 mp immobile mortar pit you needed to babysit made it impractical in that mode. Now that its much cheaper buy despite still being something you need to babysit, call in mortar is becoming somewhat redundant.
8 Apr 2021, 06:39 AM
#135
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3141 | Subs: 2



It was to provide smoke and occasional barrage mostly in 1v1 scenarios as originql 350 mp immobile mortar pit you needed to babysit made it impractical in that mode. Now that its much cheaper buy despite still being something you need to babysit, call in mortar is becoming somewhat redundant.


Instead of giving the Brits a mobile Mortar team and shoving the Mortar emplacement in the AER you mean last patch.
8 Apr 2021, 16:35 PM
#136
avatar of Vermillion_Hawk

Posts: 217

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Apr 2021, 11:03 AMVipper

I personally find Piat Commandos viable, if they start with 5 rifles and 2 piat that they can put way.

I also find 4 men commands with V-k/Thompson viable solution.

If one want to go"recon" type maybe one can experiment with "De Lisle carbine" (if that thing works) and add an ability that allow to snipe weapon team only.



Stealth-capable AT squads are a terrible idea with too much potential for abusive gameplay. Big no.
Pip
8 Apr 2021, 17:02 PM
#137
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594



Stealth-capable AT squads are a terrible idea with too much potential for abusive gameplay. Big no.


To be fair, OST can get such a thing already, with some docs giving Pgrens Ambush Training.

Admittedly I think the camo is weaker than Commandoes' camouflage.
8 Apr 2021, 17:17 PM
#138
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



Stealth-capable AT squads are a terrible idea with too much potential for abusive gameplay. Big no.

Camo in not necessary or it could simply be static.

In addition one can already equip commandos with piats in live for abusive game play so I do not see the issue.
8 Apr 2021, 19:40 PM
#139
avatar of Vermillion_Hawk

Posts: 217

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Apr 2021, 17:17 PMVipper

Camo in not necessary or it could simply be static.

In addition one can already equip commandos with piats in live for abusive game play so I do not see the issue.


You theoretically can equip Commandos with PIATs, but it's a massive waste of resources on a squad which is primarily for anti-infantry.
8 Apr 2021, 19:55 PM
#140
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

It was to provide smoke and occasional barrage mostly in 1v1 scenarios as originql 350 mp immobile mortar pit you needed to babysit made it impractical in that mode. Now that its much cheaper buy despite still being something you need to babysit, call in mortar is becoming somewhat redundant.


Eh, it's a bit more viable now, but it's still fundamentally a static emplacement. It still can't move out of the way of indirect fire or move to bombard HMGs outside of its range.

Taking UKF's anti-HMG tools away is just going to push it deeper into Infantry Section spam.
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