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Osttruppen

12 Nov 2020, 16:29 PM
#21
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 429


osttruppen are last fortress of OPness and people are using them just because they like to write "gg ez"


Maybe ppl use osttruppen because they fucking work? Dont you find it strange for a second that in 1v1 its either Osttroopen\5 men grens\Ass.grens?

Force Ost to play T1 without any commander boosts in terms of call-in inf\upgrades and you will see that if its not Ost vs Sov match up, grens will be mopping floor with their faces against USF\UKF and the only other chose would be going for sniper bleed surviving untill T2.
12 Nov 2020, 16:56 PM
#22
avatar of YeltsinDeathBrigades

Posts: 79



Maybe ppl use osttruppen because they fucking work? Dont you find it strange for a second that in 1v1 its either Osttroopen\5 men grens\Ass.grens?

Force Ost to play T1 without any commander boosts in terms of call-in inf\upgrades and you will see that if its not Ost vs Sov match up, grens will be mopping floor with their faces against USF\UKF and the only other chose would be going for sniper bleed surviving untill T2.


If they nerf ostruppen, it anyways will not affect true slaves, since we will prevail through spanking and cumming.
Any balance suction makes us stronger.
12 Nov 2020, 17:19 PM
#23
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3250 | Subs: 1

So what's will happen, if we nerf ostruppen?


They’ll hit the field a bit slower, shifting the early engagement balance of power more towards the Soviets side towards a balanced point, while also delaying the fast LV a bit more. Overall this will make stabilizing the early game for Soviets until the T70 hits easier and actually doable.

It’s also invalid to say Osttuppen are picked for the early game and should be good. Noone minds them being good, people mind them being too good to the point of being game breaking. Nothing can justify how OP they are vs soviets now.

It’s an excellent change that the game desperately needs. The issue is some people have no concept of reality and don’t know what they’re talking about (aka don’t nerf Osttruppen themselves).
12 Nov 2020, 18:11 PM
#24
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 429


Nothing can justify how OP they are vs soviets now.


Soviets arent in the best state to begin with, proving osttroppen OP against arguably weakest Allied faction is misleading in a first place. If anything, at this state of the game nothing should be projected on soviet match up, simply because powergap between EFA and WFA factions is too big.

I belive Osttropen resieved buffs in a first place because of how they performed against WFA factions. Old osts were alright against soviets, while they were garbage against WFA, now situation is shifted.
12 Nov 2020, 18:14 PM
#25
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 10750 | Subs: 1

Think one has to take into account that osstruppen become meta although they or commander have not received buffs in a long time.
Pip
12 Nov 2020, 18:20 PM
#26
avatar of Pip

Posts: 846

I agree that Osttruppen are overperforming right now... though the consensus SEEMS to be that this is pretty much entirely against SOV? As someone else has mentioned, this seems to be less an issue with Osttruppen, and more with Soviets.

The simplest solution would indeed to be to nerf Osttruppen, but bringing Soviet more in-line with other factions would presumably be the better option in terms of long-term game health, wouldn't it? I suppose given the ambiguity regarding future patches this is a little optimistic, though.

EDIT: Worth considering; If Osttruppen are just "good" versus UKF and USF, nerfing them to be less punishing against SOV is just going to make them kind of rubbish against both the US and UK forces, isnt it? I've never really looked into how they do precisely against those two factions.
12 Nov 2020, 18:20 PM
#27
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 429

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Nov 2020, 18:14 PMVipper
Think one has to take into account that osstruppen become meta although they or commander have not received buffs in a long time.


They become meta because of fast PGs and other factors which made T1 bad chose against USF\UKF, when ppl started getting osts more and becoming more experienced playing with them, they become one of the no-brainer chose.

At any rate osttroppen arent nessesery against soviets like at all, but ppl still picking them.
12 Nov 2020, 18:54 PM
#28
avatar of YeltsinDeathBrigades

Posts: 79



They’ll hit the field a bit slower, shifting the early engagement balance of power more towards the Soviets side towards a balanced point, while also delaying the fast LV a bit more. Overall this will make stabilizing the early game for Soviets until the T70 hits easier and actually doable.

It’s also invalid to say Osttuppen are picked for the early game and should be good. Noone minds them being good, people mind them being too good to the point of being game breaking. Nothing can justify how OP they are vs soviets now.

It’s an excellent change that the game desperately needs. The issue is some people have no concept of reality and don’t know what they’re talking about (aka don’t nerf Osttruppen themselves).


Please quit that tone and stop try to gaslight me about current balance state. If you are in mood to be passively aggressive against people who are experiencing different opinions than you and you see them as ridiculous, try atleast be ironic just like I am trying to be against Katitof, because he/she cannot be treated differently.
This is a quiet cheap move to increase value of your opinion by telling "people say". Please speak for yourself or give a direct quote.
Current balance state is (of course) far away from perfect and in my personal opinion worse than before heavy tank meta nerf because of less doctrinal variety, but here is nothing to run circles in room and saying that is should be fixed "asap". Game was rigged from the start, Relic cannot normally balance any game they made, CoH2 is masterpiece compared, for example, to Dawn of War. Game is playable, it has issues. Every time during to things I mentioned below somebody gets to be in a loser corner, this time it is soviets. Every faction were there, some were more than one time.
Now back to topic: you believe, that ostruppen slight nerf will fix things, am I correct?
Is it the only thing in your opinion, which demands correction, so game is perfectly balanced?
If it is not, how do you believe this change will affect other issues? "Not affect at all" is also an answer, just curious.
Last and the most important question, which looks offtopic. What is a best type of influence: rewarding or punishing? If both, than what comes first?
12 Nov 2020, 19:14 PM
#29
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1389

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Nov 2020, 13:25 PMStark


+1

But there is a reason why this unit is most pick in 1v1. Simply it works with much less effort than other ostheer strats. Some small nerf is needed but some change to see this unit viable on higher game modes would be nice as well.


lol... less effort? Osttruppen need micro as fu*k and are used in 1vs1 because Grens aren't worth it, when you have to hold your flanks. While Osttruppen get good DPS for their price.

- The LMG-upgrade was bullsh*t, give them 2 weapon-slots back and give them a smaller target sice or out-of-cover bonus instead by upgrade.

Or, like Vipper said.


I am sure most people here doesn't have the skill to use Osttruppen. Because they aren't easy to use.
12 Nov 2020, 19:39 PM
#30
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1389

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Nov 2020, 18:14 PMVipper
Think one has to take into account that osstruppen become meta although they or commander have not received buffs in a long time.


It isn't because Osttruppen changed, it is because Allii play-style changed.

You only see cancer blobb tactics anymore, so you are forced to counterblobb to hold ground.
...of Grend get a stun-grenade non-doc Osttruppe wouldn't be played anymore, because Grens could hold ground. etc.
12 Nov 2020, 19:42 PM
#31
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3250 | Subs: 1

Now back to topic: you believe, that ostruppen slight nerf will fix things, am I correct?
Is it the only thing in your opinion, which demands correction, so game is perfectly balanced?


Please refer to my "Why Ostheer is OP" thread for the answers. I'm not gonna copy paste 500 words over from that thread.
12 Nov 2020, 19:50 PM
#32
avatar of YeltsinDeathBrigades

Posts: 79



Please refer to my "Why Ostheer is OP" thread for the answers. I'm not gonna copy paste 500 words over from that thread.


I really thought that this was a bait to GIAa.
Now I got it.
12 Nov 2020, 19:54 PM
#33
avatar of YeltsinDeathBrigades

Posts: 79



lol... less effort? Osttruppen need micro as fu*k and are used in 1vs1 because Grens aren't worth it, when you have to hold your flanks. While Osttruppen get good DPS for their price.

- The LMG-upgrade was bullsh*t, give them 2 weapon-slots back and give them a smaller target sice or out-of-cover bonus instead by upgrade.

Or, like Vipper said.


I am sure most people here doesn't have the skill to use Osttruppen. Because they aren't easy to use.


You unironically think that after all map changes made to make old brits viable (putting cover literally everywhere) ostruppen are hard to use?
What is easy to use then?
12 Nov 2020, 20:02 PM
#34
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1389



You unironically think that after all map changes made to make old brits viable (putting cover literally everywhere) ostruppen are hard to use?
What is easy to use then?


So you think they are easy to use with cover? Don't forget everyone gets the cover too. xD

Build Maxims to counter Osttruppen. There is only one way to lose verus Osttruppen, max. range fights and no mobility in your attacks.

Osttruppen work, because they neutralize most Allii tactics.
12 Nov 2020, 20:29 PM
#35
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2691 | Subs: 1



So you think they are easy to use with cover? Don't forget everyone gets the cover too. xD

Build Maxims to counter Osttruppen. There is only one way to lose verus Osttruppen, max. range fights and no mobility in your attacks.

Osttruppen work, because they neutralize most Allii tactics.


Building maxims against Ostruppen is good way to lose 1v1s.
12 Nov 2020, 20:57 PM
#36
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1389



Building maxims against Ostruppen is good way to lose 1v1s.


Depending, yes, 1vs1 Osttruppen are too good, but in 3v3 they get sh*tty. The unit needs changes, and last Osttruppen patch wasn't the way to go.
12 Nov 2020, 21:02 PM
#37
avatar of Clarity

Posts: 414

Honestly its pretty simple, Ostruppen allow you to skip Tier 1 which lets the Ostheer player rush out a 222/Flamer HT before Soviets could realistically have any counter allowing them to be snowballed. Make Tier 1 not cost fuel and add the fuel Tier 1 cost previously to BP1. Put Panzergrenadiers back into Tier 2 or at least require Tier 2 to be built if the Ost player wants to build them out of the HQ. If that isn't enough then you require the player to have to have Tier 1 in order to have faust access on them, or maybe require both Tier 1 and Tier 2 to be built so very early light vehicles have a window against them.
12 Nov 2020, 22:45 PM
#38
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979



Building maxims against Ostruppen is good way to lose 1v1s.


building maxims at all is a good way to lose a game... anyone half decent can counter the maxim with little effort since its the only mg that takes FOUR seconds to suppress...
12 Nov 2020, 22:52 PM
#39
avatar of Spoof

Posts: 275

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Nov 2020, 21:02 PMClarity
Honestly its pretty simple, Ostruppen allow you to skip Tier 1 which lets the Ostheer player rush out a 222/Flamer HT before Soviets could realistically have any counter allowing them to be snowballed. Make Tier 1 not cost fuel and add the fuel Tier 1 cost previously to BP1. Put Panzergrenadiers back into Tier 2 or at least require Tier 2 to be built if the Ost player wants to build them out of the HQ. If that isn't enough then you require the player to have to have Tier 1 in order to have faust access on them, or maybe require both Tier 1 and Tier 2 to be built so very early light vehicles have a window against them.

How about swapping Grens and MG42? Of course, some timing adjustments would be necessary since MG42 would take ages to hit the field this way.
12 Nov 2020, 23:08 PM
#40
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3250 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Nov 2020, 22:52 PMSpoof

How about swapping Grens and MG42? Of course, some timing adjustments would be necessary since MG42 would take ages to hit the field this way.


That would buff 5 Gren starts with all of them getting VSL. Not very healthy for coh2.
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