Hi all, just wanted a quick thread here about EFA halftracks and their lack of late game presence.
Once upon a time halftracks could continue to reinforce after being upgrade. This turned out to be a massive power spike and was axed. However I'm proposing a compromise--AFTER final techs are completed these units regain their ability to reinforce so that they can retain some value.
For the soviet this might lead to seeing the quad as more than an emplacement, and for ost the hope is that once the flame has lost it window for micro ost can still use it to offset their small squad sizes should it survive.
EFA halftracks late game
30 Oct 2020, 02:48 AM
#1
Posts: 5279
#stalinwept
30 Oct 2020, 06:48 AM
#2
Posts: 498
Tbh I don't think it would really help for ostheer, cuz in late game, if you want to use the HTs for reinforcement, then you would need to keep them out of sight as there is AT everywhere. Additionally one might need the HT slots too for heals.
As soviets tho it might be a bit op, leading to a more guaranteed presence of one of the best AA in most matches, locking any aircraft ussage. The unupgraded M5 might get better anyway once Sander's changes drop as it will be able to heal, a huge change for soviets.
As soviets tho it might be a bit op, leading to a more guaranteed presence of one of the best AA in most matches, locking any aircraft ussage. The unupgraded M5 might get better anyway once Sander's changes drop as it will be able to heal, a huge change for soviets.
30 Oct 2020, 09:35 AM
#4
Posts: 270 | Subs: 1
I think the EFA halftracks should get extra health like the US AA halftrack does.
I think this change is effective enough to promote usage since they no longer get swatted by double AT guns, but it's only a small amount of health and EFA don't have vehicle crews so it's not obnoxious.
I think this change is effective enough to promote usage since they no longer get swatted by double AT guns, but it's only a small amount of health and EFA don't have vehicle crews so it's not obnoxious.
30 Oct 2020, 10:03 AM
#5
Posts: 17889 | Subs: 8
I think the EFA halftracks should get extra health like the US AA halftrack does.
I think this change is effective enough to promote usage since they no longer get swatted by double AT guns, but it's only a small amount of health and EFA don't have vehicle crews so it's not obnoxious.
Oh what would I give for M5 to have 20 extra health with vet.
251 seems to be different story, given how early it arrives and how it turns into murder machine.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
30 Oct 2020, 10:12 AM
#6
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
The 251 is absolutely fine as a vehicle to support infantry, don't change a thing.
M5 needs a way to provide frontline healing like the 251, cause no one wants to bleed massive amounts of manpower reinforcing low health squads. It should either be able to drop a single med kit or heal units in its hold like the 251.
M5 needs a way to provide frontline healing like the 251, cause no one wants to bleed massive amounts of manpower reinforcing low health squads. It should either be able to drop a single med kit or heal units in its hold like the 251.
30 Oct 2020, 11:39 AM
#7
Posts: 1289
The 251 is absolutely fine as a vehicle to support infantry, don't change a thing.
M5 needs a way to provide frontline healing like the 251, cause no one wants to bleed massive amounts of manpower reinforcing low health squads. It should either be able to drop a single med kit or heal units in its hold like the 251.
A unupgraded m5 should be able to drop med crates indeed.
The 251 should not have gotten healing in the first place. Ost has plenty off healing options and availability of them. Though not as good as brits aoe moving healing wich i find op as hell.
The 251 already has a far better time window shock value. The m5 has neiher.
30 Oct 2020, 11:48 AM
#8
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
A unupgraded m5 should be able to drop med crates indeed.
That is a really bad idea and will promote human waves tactics. I am not sure why the MOD is so obsess with increasing healing options.
The 251 should not have gotten healing in the first place. Ost has plenty off healing options and availability of them. Though not as good as brits aoe moving healing wich i find op as hell.
The 251 already has a far better time window shock value. The m5 has neiher.
That simply an exaggeration. M5 has better armor and passenger can fire from it. Both units are fine.
30 Oct 2020, 12:02 PM
#9
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
Hi all, just wanted a quick thread here about EFA halftracks and their lack of late game presence.
Once upon a time halftracks could continue to reinforce after being upgrade. This turned out to be a massive power spike and was axed. However I'm proposing a compromise--AFTER final techs are completed these units regain their ability to reinforce so that they can retain some value.
For the soviet this might lead to seeing the quad as more than an emplacement, and for ost the hope is that once the flame has lost it window for micro ost can still use it to offset their small squad sizes should it survive.
Quad being able to reinforce is tricky since the ability suppress 360 can easily lead to support weapon spam around it.
Maybe allow an option un-upgrade?
30 Oct 2020, 12:04 PM
#10
Posts: 17889 | Subs: 8
That is a really bad idea and will promote human waves tactics. I am not sure why the MOD is so obsess with increasing healing options.
So... it would promote human wave tactics.... for an army that won the war using human wave tactics?
And this is a bad thing how?
Menpower for reinforcing is not infinite you know and you can already do just that using commie.
Blob of cons+comie will 100% win against any other blob that isn't well spread already.
That simply an exaggeration. M5 has better armor and passenger can fire from it. Both units are fine.
Why no one is using it?
Is it like SU-76, too overpowered to be used by regular players?
Or... is it perhaps because it arrives very late, when there already are anti tank guns and 222/puma roaming around?
Its armor is completely irrelevant, 251 haven't died a single time to small arms fire either, because letting it die this way without driving over a mine is just a noob thing.
Yes, you can shoot from M5, but what are you going to put in it? It arrives way too late to use it in this way, so this is as irrelevant argument as possible.
251 indeed is fine, but its overpacked with utility.
M5 is not and no, it is not fine. If it was fine we wouldn't have brainstorming for 2 years thinking how to make it useful unit.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
30 Oct 2020, 12:48 PM
#11
Posts: 5279
Quad being able to reinforce is tricky since the ability suppress 360 can easily lead to support weapon spam around it.
Maybe allow an option un-upgrade?
I figured the timing would help offset the strength a bit. If it couldn't reinforce until t4 then there is lots to challenge it, additionally I don't think the suppression would be a huge issue as the maxim falls off around when t2 is built so this would allow a scaling suppression platform starting t3 and be more than just AA come t4.
If it's on or near the front providing support it's better for the soviet, but also easier to dive which would be better for plane strikes
#stalinwept
30 Oct 2020, 12:51 PM
#13
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
I figured the timing would help offset the strength a bit. If it couldn't reinforce until t4 then there is lots to challenge it, additionally I don't think the suppression would be a huge issue as the maxim falls off around when t2 is built so this would allow a scaling suppression platform starting t3 and be more than just AA come t4.
If it's on or near the front providing support it's better for the soviet, but also easier to dive which would be better for plane strikes
I would only see this as an option if the quad suppression was removed or made a timed ability with a long CD.
30 Oct 2020, 14:17 PM
#16
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
So... it would promote human wave tactics.... for an army that won the war using human wave tactics?
And this is a bad thing how?
...
Conscripts human wave tactics was a viable tactic at some stage of the game and Relic decided it was bad and to moved away from.
You can ask Relic for the reasons, if I was to guess I would say because it boring to play both with and against it.
30 Oct 2020, 15:43 PM
#17
Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1
Bad Idea honestly. No other faction has mobile reinforcement platform that can deal damage\suppresion. Actually, docs aside, the only other faction that has some what mobile reinforcement is USF.
At least M5 and 251 are tanky and can take additional hits before getting down.
All this will provide is easier way to blob with M5 supprssing everything, and 251 burning the shit out of defences.
The only problem is that M5 hit the field way too late and has small window of frontline usage. But both vehicles past frontline usage phase have their usage, M5 being loiter deleter and flank protector, and 251 is a hit-and-run vehicle.
All this will lead to - frustrating gameplay to play against. If one want mobile reinforcement that badly, he can always buy another M5\251 and use it appropriatly.
At least M5 and 251 are tanky and can take additional hits before getting down.
All this will provide is easier way to blob with M5 supprssing everything, and 251 burning the shit out of defences.
The only problem is that M5 hit the field way too late and has small window of frontline usage. But both vehicles past frontline usage phase have their usage, M5 being loiter deleter and flank protector, and 251 is a hit-and-run vehicle.
All this will lead to - frustrating gameplay to play against. If one want mobile reinforcement that badly, he can always buy another M5\251 and use it appropriatly.
30 Oct 2020, 16:05 PM
#18
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
I would rather see an option to remove the upgrade for no cost and just improve the vanilla M5 as default.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
30 Oct 2020, 16:22 PM
#19
Posts: 1594
snip
I honestly don't even think the M5 is a bad unit, it's just that building it slows the Soviet T70.
The M5 has good damage, suppression, fantastic AA performance, and is decently armoured against infantry threats. It even dominates any light vehicle OST can throw at it as a bonus. (Except the Puma, but that's to be expected)
I think you'd see it more often if the T-70 wasn't "necessary".
30 Oct 2020, 16:28 PM
#20
Posts: 1979
So... it would promote human wave tactics.... for an army that won the war using human wave tactics?
you know this isnt true....
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