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russian armor

Comet armor and abilities

3 Sep 2020, 16:55 PM
#41
avatar of BetterDead ThanRed

Posts: 217

I would say comet is good at AT and AI, while panther is great at AT and poor at AI.

if a brit were to go 3 comets, its a well rounded and powerful force, it can roam the battlefield in a group of its own, and you can keep rest of the army somewhere else, VP/fuel guarding etc.

if a OST goes 3 panthers, it needs AI backup, and is usually not able to function alone without support.

comets are like mini-tiger1's, good at everything,but not excellent, and having NO major downsides, good hp,good armour, good mobility, good gun both AT and AI, good abilities to kill team weapons.

take away the grenade or the WP, and nerf AI dmg a touch or two
3 Sep 2020, 16:55 PM
#42
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1217

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Sep 2020, 16:49 PMVipper

As far as I can remember Comet's WP can kills (unless it has been patched)


I think it has been patched to no longer kill in the same manner with usf mortar ht wp.
3 Sep 2020, 16:57 PM
#43
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1217

I think i can live with an 180fu comet without grenade.
3 Sep 2020, 18:08 PM
#44
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1482




The problem with your refusal to play Axis is that you end up with such ridiculously biased "opinions".

Comet and Panther anti-infantry performance are not "similar" at all. Panther has a serviceable amount of mg damage, it's okay and I wouldn't call it terrible. The Comet cannon actually gets kills and wipes - it literally has good AOE and scatter. It's hardly even comparable. With WP and grenades Comet can dominate team weapons, especially AT guns. You're basically calling a C+ and an A "similar".

I never said the Comet was a match for the Panther. I said its overall package is too good, and its armour is oppressive vs mediums while AT guns, shrecks, and Panthers can't pen reliably. Doesn't Panther have 200 far pen? I thought 220 was mid. It doesn't actually change my point, and especially the examples I used. It has heavy tank armour, medium tank speed, lots of utility, and literally no weaknesses. It probably got overbuffed a little the last time round. Should either undo the cost decrease it got previously or nerf some of its overperforming stats.



I never said Panther and Comet have nowhere close similar AI. Comet is superior in the fact that cannon has quite a larger AOE. I don't play axis competitively, I do play them generally.
"It has heavy tank armour, medium tank speed, lots of utility, and literally no weaknesses. It probably got overbuffed a little the last time round. Should either undo the cost decrease it got previously or nerf some of its overperforming stat".
With this I agree. It could do with either a price increase or utility removal. If I were to rank AI firepower of tanks.
A+ are Sherman HE
A is P4
C+ gets Comet
D gets Panther (D+ with pintle MG)

I completely agree that Comet should get a nerf. My only point is that the armour should not be touched. The best solution would be to nerf price, that is increase it. While Comet has no clear weaknesses, it also has no clear advantages.

If you want AI, AT, maneuverability in one general package, then Comet is the way to go. If the enemy is spamming infantry, you won't buy Panther and if the enemy is spamming panthers, you won't go for the Comets or Shermans. You'll go for fireflies and Jacksons and SU85s.
If you were to phrase it academically:
Comet has C+ in all classes but also has a B in practical classes, whereas it should have a C (Utility). Either increase the tuition costs or lower his grade in practical class. Unlearning the knowledge to cook grenades would also be viable along with a slight price increase.

Brits are in my book probably the most rounded faction concerning tanks. Cromwell is weak but has low profile and good maneuverability. Comet is a jack of all trades. Churchill is the breakthrough tank with not bad AT capability. Firefly is great vs all tanks when supported (super weak unsupported) and Centaur is good infantry support vehicle.

Compared to OST:
OST has specialist tanks in T4. Brummbar the heavy nuke launcher (better than churchill in breakthrough role but worse at AT, A SPECIALIST)
Panther, best AT tank in the game, poor vs infantry.
You have 2 specialist tanks and one rocket arty. Each excel in their field but lack in other. Does that mean that they should be nerfed/buffed? I don't think so. These are their roles.
I'm typing this as I have just played a game as OST and my werfer managed to miss most of the shots vs a 4 squad blob (13 kills out of potential (4*5)*3, capping a VP, 3 times in a row (Ptomnik airfield, mid VP). Still doesn't mean werfer is UP, just s*** luck. Same as every other thing in this game.
3 Sep 2020, 20:30 PM
#45
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3047

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Sep 2020, 11:25 AMVipper


Imo the unit does not need to be so good at dealing with ATGs and thus requiring the expensive Panther to counter it.

Imo and since the MGs have been improved Comet should lose the WP and Grenade. This could be compensated by price decrease or something like a AP round similar to Pershing.

The utility could then be moved to Churchill that could get the WP round, have its smoke replaced with "commando" smoke providing cover status but not sight blocking and having its rear armor and AT capability reduced. Price could be adjusted.

That would create to paths. Comet for more AT oriented Churchill more AI/breakthrough/Infantry support oriented.


Churchill with WP would probably be extremely overpowered. Having such a great AT gun counter on a tank that Axis already struggles to fight would not be a good idea. On the other hand, comet kind of needs that utility to justify the fact that it has like half the HP of the churchill. Making hamer and anvil that specialized would also lead to frustrating games where the opponent just hardcounters whatever tech you pick in the lategame since its not like brits have a very diverse and versatile unit roster to begin with.
3 Sep 2020, 20:39 PM
#46
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13267 | Subs: 1


Churchill with WP would probably be extremely overpowered. Having such a great AT gun counter on a tank that Axis already struggles to fight would not be a good idea. On the other hand, comet kind of needs that utility to justify the fact that it has like half the HP of the churchill. Making hamer and anvil that specialized would also lead to frustrating games where the opponent just hardcounters whatever tech you pick in the lategame since its not like brits have a very diverse and versatile unit roster to begin with.

No.

I simply do not see why Comet should be able to counter ATG better than other main battle tanks. War speed/grenade combo and WP allow Comet to counter ATG and cause part of the current problems with it.

If Churchill is superior option it needs a nerf.

3 Sep 2020, 21:04 PM
#47
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Sep 2020, 20:39 PMVipper

No.

I simply do not see why Comet should be able to counter ATG better than other main battle tanks. War speed/grenade combo and WP allow Comet to counter ATG and cause part of the current problems with it.

If Churchill is superior option it needs a nerf.



Without it's AI comet would just be a worse panther at same pricepoint.

Comets AI is not really from its maingun, mostly MG and (already nerfed into meh) abilities. This would be a huge nerf.

Comet is not getting nerfed to T3485 performance until you slap it down to 130f and 14pop. But feel free to make a thread complaining how "problematic it is". Now comet is finally built now
3 Sep 2020, 21:10 PM
#48
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13267 | Subs: 1



Without it's AI comet would just be a worse panther at same pricepoint.

Comets AI is not really from its maingun, mostly MG and abilities. This would be a huge nerf

I did not suggested to reduce AI, I simply pointed out that the units should not be able to counter ATG so easily.


Comet is not getting nerfed to T3485 performance until you slap it down to 130f and 14pop.

No one suggested to become a T-34/85. Comet already has superior armor and penetration.


But feel free to make a thread complaining how "problematic it is". Now comet is finally built now

Simply check who started this thread, it was not me.
3 Sep 2020, 21:34 PM
#49
avatar of Grim

Posts: 1051

It's ironic as after using the Comet with my brother the other day in several games I meant to, but never got around to, make a comet UP thread.

You're so much better off going FF with strong infantry or churchills.

Or Churchills with 17pdrs quickly thrown up by upgraded sappers is great too.

Hell, even masssed cromwells I find better than the Comet.

Maybe it doesn't gel with me as a unit as I always regret buying one...or four.
3 Sep 2020, 21:39 PM
#50
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Sep 2020, 21:10 PMVipper

I did not suggested to reduce AI, I simply pointed out that the units should not be able to counter ATG so easily.


No one suggested to become a T-34/85. Comet already has superior armor and penetration.


Simply check who started this thread, it was not me.


OKW can drop artillery on ATG from panthers and you're here complaining about a already nerfed vet Inc shot

It's a non issue, if anything ATGs are too strong right now
3 Sep 2020, 21:47 PM
#51
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1351



OKW can drop artillery on ATG from panthers and you're here complaining about a already nerfed vet Inc shot

That is a doctrine ability and U need an upgrade for it making U resign from the mg. A bit different to stock stuff.

It's a non issue, if anything ATGs are too strong right now

Not against a tank that can blind them, drain hp with the smoke and later grenade it.
3 Sep 2020, 22:21 PM
#52
avatar of Yourcall

Posts: 40

Or you could make other Brit tanks not so insanely shit and people wont stall for Comet
3 Sep 2020, 22:24 PM
#53
avatar of Yourcall

Posts: 40

For all the things lacking in the UKF kit, and for all the garbage in the tech trees its fine if one or two units are actually good.
3 Sep 2020, 22:27 PM
#54
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13267 | Subs: 1



OKW can drop artillery on ATG from panthers and you're here complaining about a already nerfed vet Inc shot

If you want my opinion, being able to call Arty from tank commanders is badly designed ability and I even pointed out during the commander revamp.

But you are comparing a doctrinal ability that takes up commander and removes the pintle mg with stock abilities of Comet and that is misleading.


It's a non issue, if anything ATGs are too strong right now

It is an issue since these abilities that hard counter ATG are available only to Comet.

If ATG are "too strong" they should be nerfed or these abilities should become available stock to other units also.
3 Sep 2020, 22:27 PM
#55
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Sep 2020, 22:27 PMVipper

If you want my opinion, being able to call Arty from tank commanders is badly designed ability and I even pointed out during the commander revamp.

But you are comparing a doctrinal ability that takes up commander and removes the pintle mg with stock abilities of Comet and that is misleading.


It is an issue since these abilities that hard counter ATG are available only to Comet.

If ATG are "too strong" they should be nerfed or these abilities should become available stock to other units also.


And for comet you have to lock urself out of Sturm tier repair speeds and indirect fire

What's your point?

And BTW crew grenade or WP is not a "hard counter" to ATG wall, no way in hell you can claim that. ATG outranges even WP for a start. U pretty much show your poor knowledge with such an outlandish claim

Maybe try 4vs4 some time and see how far comets get you vs supported Pak wall, good luck vs the snares.

Crew grenade is not a substitute to real hard counters like Calliope or katyusja

4 Sep 2020, 00:20 AM
#56
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1217

It may seem like the comet have a set of abilities that allowed you "easily" counter AT gun. But actually no. It only work well on paper. When you put it in actual gameplay environment where AT gun is properly support and there are snare basically everywhere then closing in to toss a grenade is very close to a suicidal mission, event with smoke. It not like at the time you have comet, your opponent still running around with AT only. not to mention risk of mines.
4 Sep 2020, 03:57 AM
#57
avatar of Serrith

Posts: 783


And BTW crew grenade or WP is not a "hard counter" to ATG wall, no way in hell you can claim that. ATG outranges even WP for a start. U pretty much show your poor knowledge with such an outlandish claim


I'm pretty sure WP shells have longer range then ATG sight range, and I'm pretty sure that comets with tank commander have longer sight range then ATG. If you are saying the problem is that the comet can't shut down x4 paks with infantry support, you would be very correct. But the problem isnt that the comet cant defeat 40 supply of anti tank assets, the problem is the comet can excessively easily shut down 1-2 atg even if they have infantry support. No other tank does that except the churchill.
4 Sep 2020, 06:12 AM
#58
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

I'd sooner comet and church be one off tanks and be balanced as such instead of this odd hybrid of normal unit you can have many of and balance considerations specifically to ensure that doesn't happen...
4 Sep 2020, 07:54 AM
#59
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1217



I'm pretty sure WP shells have longer range then ATG sight range, and I'm pretty sure that comets with tank commander have longer sight range then ATG. If you are saying the problem is that the comet can't shut down x4 paks with infantry support, you would be very correct. But the problem isnt that the comet cant defeat 40 supply of anti tank assets, the problem is the comet can excessively easily shut down 1-2 atg even if they have infantry support. No other tank does that except the churchill.


wp shoot have 45 range and comet with tank commander have 45 sight. It simply not out range nor out spot Supported AT.
4 Sep 2020, 08:14 AM
#60
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518



wp shoot have 45 range and comet with tank commander have 45 sight. It simply not out range nor out spot Supported AT.


You need to keep in mind that the ability just needs to be slightly inside of the 45 Range , but since the ability affects a 10*10 (just estimated) radius you can actually outrange AT guns.
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