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russian armor

Stuka CAS

1 Jun 2020, 00:38 AM
#21
avatar of Latch

Posts: 773

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Jun 2020, 00:30 AMBaba
is all your complaining about coding etc. because you just lost one cromwell to an ability? did you rush here once the game ended to cry about how unfair life is? :D
you were told by 3 people that this is how the ability is intended to work, still youre not satisfied.

there are things in the game that are actually broken which dont get fixed, welcome to coh


It's not the first time it has happened, and no, I played several games after but made sure to comment about it as the ability is broken and it needs to be discussed.

No ability should be intended to chase you way out of the area with zero vision, if the enemy had vision I wouldnt mind so much but it didn't.

if (vision) {state = "attack"} else if !vision {state = "patrol"}. Simple.

Name me 3 things that are broken to this extent that requires 1 click on the map.

But anyway, I know you have a hardon for me but lets not make this about me, instead focus on the ability.
1 Jun 2020, 00:41 AM
#22
avatar of Baba

Posts: 600

broken with regard to coding (stuff bugging out, "true" vision failing, pathing issues etc.)
i dont think that any units or abilities are broken
1 Jun 2020, 01:38 AM
#23
avatar of Serrith

Posts: 783

Meh. There are other abilities that work like this. For example, AT grenades once the animation starts will home in on the target no matter how far it drives away before the projectile is launched. I've seen vehicles 60+ range get hit by AT rifle nades because of the delay on firing(the delay being a problem, not the tracking).
At least loiters can be shot down, or even dodged once they have been triggered. I am not saying they are well balanced, but there are counter play options.
I don't think this particular case is one where you deserved to get away with your cromwell. At least he had to expend 200 munitions to secure what should have been an easy kill. Content yourself with that.
1 Jun 2020, 01:47 AM
#24
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Jun 2020, 00:38 AMLatch
if (vision) {state = "attack"} else if !vision {state = "patrol"}. Simple.


:rolleyes:

What you don't realise is that the plane had vision on you before it arrive on the minimap and what you see is just the plane preparing for the strafe.

Unless you are already leaving the area, if you react ONCE THE FLARES ARE IN THE FLOOR, you will never escape the first strafe (both planes).

You could alternative increase the duration of Loiters to +10s and increase the time on arrival to +10s but outside of it, they will keep chasing people down outside the area.
1 Jun 2020, 01:50 AM
#25
avatar of Baba

Posts: 600

there are other forms of homing missiles. if RNG decides that Raketen is going to hit you even though you already drove your tank behind a building thus apparent safety, it will just home on target.
the next moment it misses a point blank shot
1 Jun 2020, 01:51 AM
#26
avatar of Latch

Posts: 773

Meh. There are other abilities that work like this. For example, AT grenades once the animation starts will home in on the target no matter how far it drives away before the projectile is launched. I've seen vehicles 60+ range get hit by AT rifle nades because of the delay on firing(the delay being a problem, not the tracking).
At least loiters can be shot down, or even dodged once they have been triggered. I am not saying they are well balanced, but there are counter play options.
I don't think this particular case is one where you deserved to get away with your cromwell. At least he had to expend 200 munitions to secure what should have been an easy kill. Content yourself with that.


I had the exact counter on the field, a bofors and it did nothing because it was focusing on a tank, but that's another issue. AT nades should be skill shots I have always said that and it can be frustrating to get into range and be homed in on but the only counter to at nades is to, not get in range, the counter to loiters is moving out of the area and AA, I had and did both and my tank got destroyed.

The game was lost long before this ability was used losing the cromwell only ended the game sooner, but how should it have been an easy kill? His only AT in the area was a panther and it was snared so it couldnt chase, my cromwell drove out of the area of loiter and he had no vision, so how does that mean he deserved to kill my tank by clicking a button?
1 Jun 2020, 03:56 AM
#28
avatar of Aarotron

Posts: 563

I can hardly call it op at least as soviets. Quad 50 cal burts down the planes in an instant.
1 Jun 2020, 07:01 AM
#29
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3104 | Subs: 2

I think OP is a bit too salty about the lost Cromwell, yet the issue he talks about is valid.
The player has no chance to learn how loiters work and that they will attack 100% if they aquired their target unless they come to the forums and ask about it. CoH2 does a poor job at communicating this information which makes the ability look like pure RNG and unfair.
But since we cannot really rework loiters anymore, all we can do is tweaking them to make them punishing towards low micro. In this case I'd say increase the duration of the ability by 5 seconds, but let the second plane spawn in 10 sec later (if that is possible).
1 Jun 2020, 07:20 AM
#30
avatar of Sumi

Posts: 132

I had my Katyusha die to this ability, the Katyusha which was not even within 30 range of any units including mine. Don't remember if my kat was in CAS circle or not but it did die in the FOW and as we all know it can't do shit except barrage to be detected in FOW. And the nearest enemy unit was like half a map away from it and outside the CAS cricle. This game surprises you like anything and that's why we love it after cursing it for no more than 2 days.
1 Jun 2020, 08:11 AM
#31
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1351


The player has no chance to learn how loiters work and that they will attack 100% if they aquired their target unless they come to the forums and ask about it. CoH2 does a poor job at communicating this information which makes the ability look like pure RNG and unfair.

That is the problem imo at the current stage of game development. You basically have to experiment with the ability many times or be on its receiving end (again many times) and still it is difficult to figure out how it works exactly. It leads to a lot of frustration. I feel such things should be acknowledged in the description of the ability. If that is not possible we could have a forum section where all abilities/units could be explained. I feel that it is often more necessary than balancing units itself form the perspective of an average afternoon player. Just giving people the knowledge on what to expect instead of making them experiment with every single unit/ability before they more or less know what to expect at what range and against which type of cover/unit, etc.
1 Jun 2020, 08:32 AM
#32
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3104 | Subs: 2


That is the problem imo at the current stage of game development. You basically have to experiment with the ability many times or be on its receiving end (again many times) and still it is difficult to figure out how it works exactly. It leads to a lot of frustration. I feel such things should be acknowledged in the description of the ability. If that is not possible we could have a forum section where all abilities/units could be explained. I feel that it is often more necessary than balancing units itself form the perspective of an average afternoon player. Just giving people the knowledge on what to expect instead of making them experiment with every single unit/ability before they more or less know what to expect at what range and against which type of cover/unit, etc.


Yes I agree.
Changing the descriptions is very easy, but a lot of manual work to find the respective text strings.
1 Jun 2020, 08:52 AM
#33
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1351


(..) a lot of manual work to find the respective text strings.

Didn't know that they are so hidden tbh. Usually people wrote that the more problematic might be different language versions.
1 Jun 2020, 08:57 AM
#34
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3104 | Subs: 2


Didn't know that they are so hidden tbh. Usually people wrote that the more problematic might be different language versions.


What you have to do is to delete the strings in the loc file, start a game, note down the string number that you want to change and then go back to the original loc file and change the text. That's it. I have done quite a few of those and it takes some time because you keep forgetting some strings or find new ones, then need to start up the game again etc.
Additionally you can cause troubles because some strings are shared and you have no idea which ones are. There currently is no publicly available database for which strings belong to which unit/button etc. This makes it very tedious, but the work itself is very simple.
1 Jun 2020, 18:19 PM
#35
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

We can say all day that "that's how loiters work" to OP. That's totally true, it doesn't mean that it's okay

All loiters have issues imo, not just SCAS. Yeah tracking outside the circle is how they all work. So shouldn't there be some indicator of that in-game besides your vehicle getting shot?

A vehicle that gets tracked should have an icon over it until the lock expires. Similar to when your tank gets tagged with "Mark Target" you see an icon

Personally Id rather they completely rework loiters to be less automated. But it's a little late for that I assume
1 Jun 2020, 18:43 PM
#36
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

That's totally true, it doesn't mean that it's okay

And it doesn't matter, because its impossible to change it.
We've had this discussion already with P-47 rocket loiter.
1 Jun 2020, 19:05 PM
#37
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1


And it doesn't matter, because its impossible to change it.
We've had this discussion already with P-47 rocket loiter.

Dude, learn to fucking read:

A vehicle that gets tracked should have an icon over it until the lock expires. Similar to when your tank gets tagged with "Mark Target" you see an icon

I didn't say they should change how tracking works. That's not even remotely close to what I said

I said do the above suggestion, OR rework them completely (which I then said it's too late for)
1 Jun 2020, 19:31 PM
#38
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

A vehicle that gets tracked should have an icon over it until the lock expires. Similar to when your tank gets tagged with "Mark Target" you see an icon

How is that supposed to work? Cause it would be a dynamic "debuff/tracking" been applied each time each of the planes is attacking something and had to be removed once the strafe is over. So it wouldn't be a fixed amount of time cause the time between tracking and attack varies greatly.

The mark target icons informs you that your tanks is receiving more dmg and it's independent from the plane circling around.

I'm just saying that it's not like copy pasting an already implemented feature.
1 Jun 2020, 19:37 PM
#39
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1


How is that supposed to work?


The same way it already works, just add an icon? When a tank gets locked on the game knows to have the plane attack it. If you move your tank out early enough, the second pass from the two planes won't target it, yes?

So can't we have an indicator that shows this? Or at least shows what "early enough" is? If the game is already making this determination secretly, they're must be some call-out or icon they could match up with it. Would also help for if you have multiple vehicles in the radius

I know the mark Target icon is independant of the plane, just giving an example of the type of visual I'm talking about. Icons like the command tank, mark Target, blitz, etc.
1 Jun 2020, 20:37 PM
#40
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2



The same way it already works, just add an icon? When a tank gets locked on the game knows to have the plane attack it. If you move your tank out early enough, the second pass from the two planes won't target it, yes?

So can't we have an indicator that shows this? Or at least shows what "early enough" is? If the game is already making this determination secretly, they're must be some call-out or icon they could match up with it. Would also help for if you have multiple vehicles in the radius

I know the mark Target icon is independant of the plane, just giving an example of the type of visual I'm talking about. Icons like the command tank, mark Target, blitz, etc.


I'm talking about how you are ACTUALLY supposed to code it. Not the general idea behind it. Without requiring "hack" type solutions to make it work.
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