Um, penetration values for other tanks is pretty useful to give you a sense of just how good the Easy-8 is at countering armor compared to other tanks. I'd love to hear why you think it's bad versus armor given it's extra health, better armor, .75 moving accuracy, and good penetration (especially compared to other mediums). Oh, and now you can get a tank commander to be self spotting with extra accuracy and at Vet 1 you can get extra range and even more penetration. And no "I can't get good results with it so it must be trash" isn't an acceptable answer.
I get what your saying but like people have said already that argument only works in a 1v1 tank fight. It does not take into consideration the rest of the army composition. Comparing to the regular Sherman the extra health and armor are nice but you wouldn't be using the Sherman to solo push a P4 or better anyways. Both have .75 moving accuracy and the good pen of the E8 stops being good at a P4J. But now I can get that tank commander along with VET1 ability for more range and extra penetration. So I need to pay more for a tank, upgrade then vet it to do what I wanted it to do to begin with along with losing mobility which my faction is known for.
Now for the Jackson the extra health and armor no longer factor due to the Jackson range keeping it out of harms way. The Jackson obviously pens better and its ability which also increases penetration and damage does not have a corresponding loss to mobility.
Now if we look at it as a 2 tank per side battle it gets even worse. Using both a non-doctrinal Sherman and Jackson vs 2 E8. The Sherman covers all of the Jacksons deficiencies and vice versa while being cheaper than the 2 E8. |
That's not how the game works. The E8 can and will reliably beat p4s where the m4 is disadvantaged. The E8 is even more valuable against okw where the medium tank match up leaves usf on the back foot.
USF doesn't want for AI anywhere so it's lower AI isnt the end of the world if it denies your enemy tank supremacy.
The issues lie in it being doctrinal, and it competing with the Jackson for an AT role. Those and the fact the tank isn't really that FUN (this I suppose is in part because of its lower AI)
Like I said, make it a limited to 1 command unit and it gives it much more room to be unique and not overlap so much. As I think, it might be required to be HARD capped at 1per game due to the crew, or at the very least with an extreme cooldown to prevent stacking up.
But back to your point there is no denying that the E8 has good stats. It can bounce all standard AT and requires a Panther as a means to guarantee penatrations. This is undeniable. There is no spin. Stats are stats. E8 CAN bounce even pak shots at range (the chance is slim but it CAN) it is one of the only allied mediums in the game that has that chance. It's not debatable. It's one of the only allied mediums that can bounce shreks. Again, this is beyond contestation.
The tank is underwhelming. I agree with that, but imo it's a fun factor not a Stat issue. This is not fact but opinion.
My issue with what your saying is only the Ost P4 gets reliably beat, the OKW does not. E8 has the advantage but it is not as large as the Panther vs E8. In other words, the P4J beats the Sherman, Panther beats E8 unless rng goes catastrophically wrong. Where does the E8 fit in, it is supposed to be AT focused but does not excel which is why I ask for more armor or health.
I was thinking maybe change the Tank commander benefits from increased sight and accuracy to a damage reduction similar to what the Pershing got. With this the E8 becomes a true brawler which wont dominate the Panther/JP4 head to head but will allow for longer fights or to simply overwhelm thru attrition. Maybe charge 70-100 muni. |
This may be on purpose. Check the territory around the houses. The houses may not reside in any territory.
It is usually best to not design a map around a certain unit or commander. But it is the mappers discretion to do so, especially in a 1v1 situation to make it better for tournament play.
Thanks, I wasn't sure since the houses by the gas didn't seem to be in any territory. Your reasoning makes sense, do you think it has a chance to be changed now that Forward headquarters is CP2. |
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Not sure if this is a bug or was meant to be on purpose.
On the Bocage map, none of the building are able to be converted to a Forward Headquarters from Urban defense. |
Well there you have it. Or user error. Easy 8 has 155 far penetration (more than M10 without AP ammo) bouncing shots is never going to be Easy 8's problem but of course it's not going to have TD level Pen. For comparison OKW P4 has 110 Far Penetration. Now, if you're trying to use Easy 8s against KTs or other super heavies then yes it's going to bounce more but that's why they added the new Vet 1 ability. Talking about it's AI performance is neither here nor there as it's intended role isn't AI but it has the perk of having SOME AI compared to dedicated tank destroyers.
Thanks for the response.
I think I was at mid range but like we said bad roll. I completely forgot that the tank commander doesn't provide the range bonus its is part of Focus Gunnery so that is my my fault. Seems like the optimal set up for the E8 would be MG with VET1 always on and playing at long range unless a Panther comes along. |
I suggest you next post is after 10+ games...
Well I played with the unit not stop vs CPU during the BETA so not much changed stat wise after final BETA version. The main difference is obviously strategy of a live person vs CPU with inflated resources. People still had the same problems as you can see in the USF balance thread.
Do you have any actual suggestions or personal feedback since you seem to always give condescending answers to anything you don't like. |
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I just played a second game this time vs OKW with Falls. Decided to go a completely turtle style of play and rushed the M3 halftrack and pushed up little by little using the M3 healing and reinforcement. Slowly built Bunkers/Howi/AT gun and forced him to keep poking me until I would catch him out of position and push hard with E8 game was slow and boring but effective.
The E8 really didn't push the game in my favor aside from the fact that I slowly blobbed them over time. The biggest issue is its consistency. It bounces shots when you don't expect, wipes opposing infantry off of random lucky shots, and gets its own shots bounced. It just isn't reliable compared to regular Sherman and Jackson.
To the guy I played, sorry for the boring ass game. |
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It has only been one game but this unit is straight up useless. I know I got a bad roll of rng in my game but I literally lost for trying to use it. I had control of the map for most of early game, opponent sw3itched to blobbing JLI to stall for P4J. Our tanks came out around the same time, out of a total of say 6 shots I think 1 penetrated. I ended up making 2 to see if maybe I was just being unlucky. It was more of the same. What is the point of accuracy if it doesn't damage the enemy tank. The game snowballed and I lost after that.
No big deal but at this point I am struggling to figure out what is the point of the E8, it cant tackle more than a P4 with side skirts nor infantry. The commander does not give you a way to get immediate wipes such as rocket art or indirect. The crazy thing was in my game I flanked him and got 3 or 4 wipes using 1 white phos ability. But I couldnt capitilize on killing his tank because my shit kept bouncing.
To hopefully figure out how to use this commander can the mods form a 1v1 tournament where they have to use USF and Rifle company when they play Allies. |
Ehh I think it would hurt. AT satchel becomes a lot easier to use if you add hoorah back to penals. That would be too strong imo
It could be balanced easily by making it part of the assault package which can lock out the AT upgrade. No yolo satchel. |
https://coh2.serealia.ca/
Relatively up to date if I'm not mistaken
I think hoorah really makes a big difference though. Really useful for getting behind an MG, closing on a long range squad, etc.
And in the end, just get shocks. They're just a better version of ppsh penals, whereas cons give more utility and a good discount compared to both
Thanks, I completely forgot about that website. Looking at the curves the Penals would hit harder early while the conscript would deal close enough while having better Vet3 durability. If I am reading the graphs correctly the PPSH upgrade is massive from short to mid range(16). My next question is if this is a single model DPS graph or for the whole squad? If it is single model, it would make sense to have at least one penal run around in a clown car as a chase unit.
On a different note why does OKW have better RA compared to Ost when they have larger squads? They always seem to float MP unless there are team wipes. |
Danke_Tovarishch
rumartinez89
Relic Entertainment
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