Profile of Hannibal

ye good olde trusty stopwatch here as well, haha. though if someone could create a mod as suggested by vipper things would be much easier and precise. i tried messing with the refresh rate of the in-game damage counter a bit since, in theory, setting the delay slightly higher than the time between shots would produce double damage ticks whenever 2 hits are registered between refresh. this is still far from optimal and quite tedious though...

For the ZiS and Brummbär, we have measured very similar in-game times.
I am not sure if you corrected properly. For example the Brummbär has 8,25 reload and 0,125 fire aim, which would lead to (old model) 8,375 seconds. It uses two stats so I corrected for 0,25 seconds, which leads to 8,625 seconds. You somehow dropped 0,125 seconds at some point and got a corrected value of 8,5.

I think you only added the 0,125 s for correction once, regardless of how many stats are used.

For ZiS (just see my table), the correction is 0,5 seconds as it uses all four stats. You seem to have corrected by only 0,125 again.


From your table, I would predict Pershing and Greyhound for example use three stats, while the Howi uses all for. For the Pershing I know that it uses wind down I think, Greyhound and Howi no idea.

The program has developed nicely so far. Tank combat is now fully simulated at a given distance and I plan to release a first version soon.

Below you can find a showcase of what it can do and how to use it (there is no pretty GUI, so you will have to do with the command window):

After start up:

The program has three functions: inspect, tank targeting simulation (what I showed in the opening post) and tank fight simulation. Just type in the number to use them. In the background you see the folder with the file in it.


[1] The inspector:

Currently there are only a hand full of units added which are printed to you in the list. Just type in the name. This allows you to check some stats if you are interested or to see if they are still up to date.


[2] Tank targeting simulation

This simulates one tank shooting at the other without the target firing back. DeCoHde asks you to choose the shooter, target, angle, distance and how many simulations to run. Make sure that the distance is within the range of the shooter, otherwise the program will not be able to finish calculation. DeCoHde writes two files: One summary where the most important data of each simulation is stored, and a detailed report where you can see what happened to each shot during the simulation.


[3] Tank fight simulation

DeCoHde's core and glory.
You need to enter two vehicles and their angles. You can also add a shot delay for the second vehicle, the number of simulations and a "retaliation shot time". This is the time after which the loosing vehicle is still allowed to fire after the killing shot has been fired. This value basically simulates the air time for the projectile, as well as "out of control" crits during which a dead vehicle can still fire in-game.

In the example, the following situation is simulated:
A Tiger sneaks around a shot blocker to flank the IS2 from and gets a 30° angle. This allows the Tiger to shoot the rear armor if it is lucky. The Tiger drove up frontally to the IS2, so the IS2 can only hit the frontal armor (0° angle of the Tiger). Since the IS2 got flanked, it still needs 2 more seconds to rotate its turret to shoot back at the Tiger. The fight takes place at 30 meters until one of the vehicles is killed.

The simulation generated this output file:

In simulation 46 you can see that there was a draw between both. The IS2 would have won, but the Tiger shot back within the retaliation time and dealt the killing blow to the low health IS2 as well. These draws occurred in 4 out of the 1000 simulations. Overall, the Tiger won in 2 out of 3 cases, the IS2 defended itself successfully in 1 our of 3 cases.
Otherwise you can also take a lot of data from the sheet, like how many shots were fired, the remaining health of the winner in the summary file.

Great find, you're definitely onto something here. I've done a bit of testing and I see the same discrepancy between the in-game ROF and theoretical values.

Name	theoretical	in-game
Pershing	6.750	7.000
M8 Greyhound	4.000	4.250
Pack Howi AF	9.750	10.125
Brumm	8.500	8.613
Zis-3	5.863	6.245
KV-8 45mm	5.000	5.112
HM-38 120mm	8.238	8.542
PM-41 82mm	6.950	7.280

I've tried correcting the theoretical TBS by your method, but I always get 0.25 s more than in-game. Pretty strange, but I agree this can be pretty important and deserves a closer look!
The more you know...

How did you measure the times?
I literally stopped them by a stop watch. So there should be some minor errors for stopping the time, but compared to the duration I measured overall they should be minor.
I also tested the Brummbär and my formula seems to fit pretty well.

Could it be that infantry ROF also hides some secrets similar to the ones presented in op? Nobel prize for the first guy to explain suppression calculations.

Am I correct to assume then, that the discrepancy in TBS between the JP4 and Jackson is larger than expected and to disadvantage of Jackson?

I am not 100% sure that the JP4 does not have wind up and wind down. But if it does not, then you are correct. It would generate an additional difference of 0,25 seconds.

OK, I will just make a thread featuring a clip of maxim cought off position and very wounded con squad being overrun by upgraded blob of somewhat spread out grens and call grens OP and blame balance team for overbuffing them this patch.

The left engagement is a standard spot for MGs on this map. 4 IS run frontally into an MG and 2 Grens and win. The MG was even refocussed decently. That's bullshit. The opponent went for 7 IS and this is basically how most of the stream went.

Now one stream is by far not enough to rebalance, but if a lot of people complain and there seem to be real issues, also a Katitof should stop bullshitting for once.