Guys, a question:
I want "Radio" to stay in the doctrine but lets say the mod team had to replace it because of technical reasons:
What do you think about giving Wehrmacht the I.R. Halftrack as a replacement?
This doctrine has no offmap ability. I kinda like the idea of Radio, but what about something to call in? Maybe the ability which gives PGs satchels and Pios better repair can be added with vehicle detection for PGs or Grens? The same ability Storm Troopers with Shreck get ;-)
So you get some kind of recon but you still have 1 slot free for some arty or support ability.
@Sander93 that's not true. Almsot 80% of OKW players go Med truck in order to get Mechanized asap.
And even if, almost every Wehr player gets 1 Armored Car out for 30 fuel. So we have to add 30 + 175 = 205 fuel.
If OKW decides to got T2, then we have 20 fuel more for building and then maybe a Luchs for 60 (which by the way is much more durable and better than AC). Thats 80 + 175 = 255 fuel. Thats 50 fuel more, which means around 2 mins later. Again, salvaging not calculated.
According to the new Wehrmacht Commander getting OKW P4 with better armor right from the beginning, I made some comparrisons between OST P4 and OKW P4. They both have the same cannon (Penetration values) but different armor values.
Used penetration values are for mid range, cause it's the most common range for fighting.
TLTR: Reduce OKW and OST Vet 2 P4's armor a bit and in exchange increase hitpoints to survive a 5th shot and increase fuel from 140 to 150. That would make a difference between those variants and give you a real choice.
So here we go. All percentages show the chance of penetration. E.g. the USF 57mm AT gun penetrates the OKW P4 with 60% chance, OST P4 with 78%. That means, OST P4 survival chance is 18% worse.
1. The higher armor value of OKW P4 doesnt matter when it comes to allied tank destroyers. They almost all penetrate with 100%. Same could be said about AT guns. The differences are marginal. You don't feel a difference ingame. For example the 6 pounder at gun penetrates OKW P4 with 85% chance. That menas you have a chance of 15% to survive, thats not even every 5th shot.
2. Better armor seems a bit stronger vs allied medium tanks. But even there, almost about 1 in 2 shots penetrates your OKW P4 at mid range. Thats not pretty much. And heavy mediums (T34/85 and Sherman E8) also don't care much about better P4 armor. They penetrate with ~65%, which means 2/3 of all shots fired will penetrate.
3. If you turn tables and look at the penetration values of the German Pak 40 vs T34/85 and Sherman E8 you can see similarities between Pak 40 and 6 Pounder:
Pak 40 vs T43/85 (160 armor): 125%
6 Pounder vs OST P4 (180 armor): 111%
=> Both at guns will always penetrate. The higher armor value doesnt matter.
Pak 40 vs Sherman E8 (215 armor): 93%
6 Pounder vs OKW P4 (234 armor): 85%
=> For having 19 armor more you get 8% higher chance of not getting penetrated. Thats neglectable.
T34/85 does nearly cost the same as OST P4 and Sherman E8 nearly costs the same as OKW P4.
BUT both allied heavy mediums do have more hitpoints, so they survive one more shot! And thats much more important in combat, than having a little bit more armor.
Reduce OKW and OST Vet 2 P4's armor from 234 to 215, to bring it in line with Sherman E8, but increase hitpoints from 640 to 720 and increase fuel from 140 to 150. That would make a huge difference and could help P4 to better compete in late game and would also give you a real choice.
I really appreciate this topic, because I also see your concerns Miragefla!
In my opinion the Wehrmacht pioneers are the pivot. Make them worth buying, give them better close combat qualities and you can build 2 Pios + 2 Grens + MG and you are fine teching T2 getting PGs.
Ost Pios are totally useless for combat at the moment. Even with flamethrowers, they die too quick and don't do any damage. They sometimes even lose versus Soviet engineers or Rear Echelons while having MP40 submachineguns... Thats the reason why Wehr needs minimum 3 Grens, bettter 4 of them (and Allies whine about blobbing/spamming). Just compare them with Royal Engineers. They can get a 5th man, are also close combat with Sten guns, but are way better than Pios. If you manage to get your 4-5 men Royal Engis suqad in cc with a Wehr Grenadier, you really grab them by the pussy!
I don't say they have to be a Sturmpios light version. They just have to be capable of fighting Conscripts, GIs and Tommys in the early game at close, very close range. Penals are more expansive but should also be less potent at close range because semi-auto rifles are not the same as full-auto MPs. Therefore Pios should not be able to extinguish penals in CC but should also do some decent damage.
So when you got your 2 Grens at long range and you get your Pios rushing into CC, you should have a good chance to win in early game. MGs would still be a strong counter, so I don't see any unbalance. We already have Sturm Pios and they are also not an issue.
After 5-6 mins you should then be able to get PGs on the field to replace the pioneers. Cause then USF gets BAR, Tommys get 5 men or Brens an Soviet call in Guards, Shocks or upgrade their Cons with PPSH (Penals have Vet 1 and are a lot stronger then)
In conclusion, buff Pioneers a bit and you get some new meta in eraly game.
For PGs in particular, I would give them a smoke grenade as it was proposed in the last Balance Preview Patch. This would give them a better chance to flank enemy MGs and give the Wehrmacht a better offense ability. That's all I would do with PGs.
this is my first post on CoH².org Because of low response in the official forum, I hope to get a nice disucussion here instead. Since hearing from Relics' next CoH² update and their plans about updating some commanders, I am really excited and can't await winter! So I made some thoughts about it and would like to show you them. As many of you probably know me, I play 90% Axis and therefore my thoughts focus on Axis. I also play CoH² since closed Alpha, so I can say I got a lot of experience for this purpose. In my opinion, Ostheer is in a really good spot right now and has many good commanders. That's the reason why I am only focusing on OKW. Ostheer can Imperial Dane or Helping Hans do^^ I try to be as short as possible. I am looking forward to you opinions!
Commanders that should be revamped: Elite Armor Doctrine
Elite Armor Doctrine:
Signal Relay: "Boosting signal range briefly reveals enemy vehicles on the mini map." => Should reveal ALL units on minimap, same as interrogation training, and should temporarily boost vehicles' sight range, e.g. by 5 or 10.; This would give this doctrine some kind of reconnaissance which is really needed by OKW. Maybe increase cost from 50 to 60 ammo.
Emergency Repairs: "Vehicle crews gain the ability to repair critical damage on their vehicles. The crew is very vulnerable during this repair procedure." => It's very expensive, takes long and doesn't help much but removing a crit damage. Just make it the same as USF "Critical Repair" or Sowjet "Self Repair", just to bring this ability in line.
High Explosive Anti-Tank (HEAT) Shells: "Tanks are now issued HEAT ammunition for increased penetration." => This ability is the heart of this doctrine. And I don't want to change it a lot, just 2 things: Match this ability with sherman's HE rounds vs. infantry and increase accuracy vs. vehicles. First, because of greater AOE this ability would give this doctrine the opporunity to deal with blobs and heavy infantry gameplay. In the current state this commander is AT only (except the big fat motherf**cker we all know ). This would increase its usefulness. Second, this ability only lasts for a few seconds. And according to reload time your tanks can make only ~3 shots. For 45 ammo and only short duration I would highly recommend those ~3 shots to hit their target^^
Panzer Commander: "The Panzer IV, Panther & King Tiger can be upgraded with a Panzer Commander that can survey the battlefield and call in coordinated artillery strikes." => First, bring it in line with british tank commander (+10% accuracy, +10% sight) and on top of that, because it's called "Elite Armor", the tank commander should also boost +10% veterancy gained. And for his ability to call in light howitzers, just change it to Ostheers' light artillery barrage and adjust its activation range accoring to tank's sight range. In return, increase cost from 35 to 50 ammo, same as MG42.
Sturmtiger: "Badass Bastard" => Just send him on a diet
In conclusion: There shouldn't be changed a lot. I have liked this commander since release, but some abilities cost too much compared to their value. Updated HEAT Shells would also increase this commander's capabilities. And I think those adjustements won't overbuff this commander, will they?
Goliath: "Boom." => Cool gadget, works well sometimes. Maybe decrease its cost to 80 or 75 ammo.
Forward Receivers: "Reveals enemy units passively in the fog of war." => This ability is redundant with "Early Warning", has very short detection range and brings your trucks at high risk without much benefits. Remove this ability completely. My suggestion for this instead: Give this commander an ability to upgrade forward trucks to gain extra ressources (same bonus and costs as chaches; same ability UKF Trucks had in CoH1 [who remembers? ]). Because of having only 3 trucks and not beeing able to put more on the same territory at the same time, this would be balanced by itself without any costs.
Early Warning: "Points that are under your control are equipped with flares. The flares will trigger when an enemy unit captures your territory." => Just leave it as it is. It's the core of this doctrine and has great impact, especially in 1vs1.
For the Fatherland: "Infantry in friendly territory will receive a defensive buff and movement speed increase for the duration of the ability. Lasts 30 Seconds." => Just remove its restriction "friendly territory". This would give this commander a chance to attack and play a bit more offensiveley.
Sector Airstrike: "Stuka close air support will recon and attack the target area. 1 plane will strafe with machine guns, while another will bomb the area." => Great ability, great randomness... The bomber is a kind of lottery and its AOE is such huge that it sometimes hits your own units. On your side of the map. Not good. The bomber also gets shot very easily so your 250 ammo is wasted in seconds. I would suggest to make the bomber a single strafing run, same as british Air Supermacy: Samller area, less randomness and no friendly fire behind your own lines.
In conclusion: This commander would still be overwatching the game with its early warning flares, but with its ability to gather more ressources it would get some strength in late game. In combination with improved Airstrike and For the Fatherland this could be a great symbiosis, but it is also heavy ammuniton dependent, so it shouldn't be OP. And with trucks securing ressource points you bring them at high risk and 250mp for ressource upgrade would prevent this commander from spamming too much Volks.
Maybe you have recognized, I don't like to play around with costs. I think many abilities limit themselves and would therefore be balanced without much channging needed.