God Forbid you can't just camp USF, right?
Going Scotts, one doesn't cut it, leaves you open to Panthers.
Kinda makes me wonder why bother using the Bootleg Heavy Tank, Scotts and Jacksons will do a better job while being harder to deal with.
USF has much better doctrines to fill holes sorely needed in 2vs2 as well.
I'm going to blow your mind here so please for the love of God sit down.... You can have MULTIPLE units at the SAME TIME. you can have a Scott to punish pak walls AND have some sort of AT to stop panthers from diving. Matter of fact, the Pershing commander even has infantry capable of carrying 3 super Bazookas each.
Its always funny that in make believe scenarios the enemy is a master of combined arms and covering this hole with that and always having more resources at the ready to counter anything that can be fielded but using combined arms yourself is heresy. Like seriously the enemy is diving panthers and all you have is a Scott? That seriously what your saying? One will absolutely cut it because a static pak will then be a dead pak. Or a smoked pak needs extra micro. Try putting at least half as much effort into playing as it takes to whine about having to play on the forum. Christ all fucking mighty.
Between needing the tank to heal itself because it doesn't have a crew and using engineers like everyone else. Is impossible and "the enemy is building counters change the balance!!!" it's pathetic. |
It's 200mp AND 20 fuel, but still that seems WAY too cheap
Its less than the molitovs + AT nade techs by 5mp. That's bloody insane |
What about ATGs?
If USF is going Pershing, that means they don't have Rocket Artillery, to force double ATGs away.
Pak howi or Scott says how do you do. |
I'm not quite so sure it's as easy to say that Conscripts are the "Weakest mainline" in the game. Their combat prowess may not be fantastic early, but their veterancy bonuses are great, and this lets them fight reasonably well late, particularly when combined with 7man. Primarily they're used as a delaying unit to support other soviet gear.
This is, of course, combined with the fact they've got the most utility of any mainline going. Best sandbag in the game, Cheap and powerful (Albeit slow until vet) incendiary, Snare, and a surprisingly strong mine. The two throwables are also combined with the only nondoc mainline sprint in the game, which is an absolutely fantastic ability.
Then they have the unique "Merge" ability, allowing them to consolidate squads, and keep Elite/Veteran infantry, as well as team weapons on the field much longer.
You get all that for 240mp. I think wanting Conscripts to compete directly with other mainlines in combat terms is a little silly.
You actually don't get all that for 240mp. You need an extra 205mp and 20 fuel to get all that. Meaning a con heavy build of 4 cons makes each squad 291mp it makes a clearer picture of why people get frustrated that they lost handily with no chance at all ever to beat 260mp volks.
Nobody expects cons to be on par with rifles, but such a heavy investment deserves to scale. That's what 7 man allows for. Cons utility is indeed great, but good luck utilitizing your enemy to death while they have obers and panzer grens and upgrades that make losing models less impactful. Cons were power crept to shit and the power of utility stopped having trade offs. I remeber when cons combat performance was legit justifiable because they had sandbags which is a force multiplier because otherwise you had to use the map for cover. See also ostroppen. Utility USED to be a role in the game, but the game has been "streamlined" so that if your unit doesn't build, snare, concentrate firepower on a few models and fire on the move you are out matched. Utility only has no place in the game anymore. |
May be replace ranger with cav rifle with adjustments? It was cavalry company after all.
Tbh if people are so horny to not have to repair their tank like everyone else that could work. I know bundles are gross but cav rifles with the repairing HT from campaign might do the deed. |
If you want to add the T1 building for Penal you have to add a full truck for G43 PF and that is more fuel and manpower.
do OKW players have to tech up before getting fussies thus impacting their map control? i may have missed that in the patch notes but im fairly sure thats not the case, in which case it still requires 460mp for your first penal and 560 for your 2 fussies. thats an entire extra squad to cap and 3 combat squads for okw compared to 1 for soviet (sturm, fussie, fussie vs CE, penal) |
Yes it is, Elephants already break teamgames completely. If you nerf the su85 pen the only way soviets can kill an Elephant is literally ram and IL2, nothing else. At least now a couple su85s can poke enough to kill it.
And AGAIN, why make that change? The su85 in no way shape or form needs a nerf. The su76 needs a buff in mobility to be viable, not an su85 nerf.
If the su85 is the only answer then there needs to be changes regardless. An option that wasn't available when the su85 was buffed sky high was ptrs penals which eat elefant for dinner as an example.
Aemour doing something is equally important as tools to counter it and there should be a middle ground found. |
In other words it ok for Penal to have better moving accuracy but bad to PF to spend 80 munition to get good moving accuracy.
And if one invest 885 manpower and 240 mu on infatry he might get some wipes by minute 7-8?
In sort Penals good and PF bad.
Penals cost 460mp for their first one, fussies get close to 2 squads for that price. Map control helps offset the munitions cost.
I think penals should follow a similar design as fussie but fussies are overperforming being able to match enemy map control and then match them in combat or exceed their combat potential.
With fussies you basicly get the pros of penals without the cons. |
Well if you nerf the su85 how does the stock soviet army cope with the huge axis armour values? The t34/76 has some of the lowest pen in the game. You can't do that otherwise you're forcing soviets into commanders to counter specific doctrinal units which is unhealthy.
As has been said, lowering the pen slightly isn't going to ruin the soviet, especially since it gets a sizeable pen increase with vet.
My dream however is deflection damage for all "heavy" TDs so that a balance can be struck between armour being OP and completely countered depending on the patch. |
Imagine wanting to nerf the su85 so that the POS su76 is built more. Imagine going through 50 pages of the wildest mental gymnastics imaginable to justify not buffing the su76 to competence.
I think the su85 could be toned down regardless of the state of the su76 personally but that's neither here nor there. |
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