I wonder when people will sit back again and finally realize that the point of this thread is foremost about the tracking mechanic, and the whole CB design is secondary.
I think it's the other way around. CB is bad first off, but the counter argument has always been to move. The fact that that isn't the case and that CB can still gettcha is the icing on the cake.
Sander says it only saves you 3 clicks (each and every single time any sort of shell goes up in the air mind you) but no amount of clicks I have ever made have allowed me to follow units through the fog of war. It requires no effort AND it cheats but the cheat is on top of requiring nothing from the player, not secondary to it. |
You still save 35 fuel while getting to use both team weapons, and save population to use on elite infantry. That's still a very big advantage. And yeah, allied drops are also really great in teamgames.
35 fuel for a commander slot? could the soviet with supply drop make use of some of this magic? remove the airdrop that's going to get shot down anyways and knock 35 fuel off t4 instead?
(also officers no long take up unwanted pop as you can just send em home) |
Actually not really. If it was so, then we would have seen both Sexton\Prist every single game in teamgames, unlike LeFH\B4\ML20 (less so) which you can see every game pretty much. Sure it due to the fact that they are not in less meta commanders, but still. Royal arty was used primiry because of valentine and cheap call-in arty and inf company is more or less decent commander but because of LMGs\MTHT and field defences.
Mobile arty becomes good only when its vetted + on top of that it cant counter howis without vet, because it will be out of range most of the time and being in range will requare you to almost sit in the front line.
I've tryed to use Sexton\Prist and compare them to ML-20\LeFH\B4 and over-all its incomparably harder to use them effectively. Hell, even enemy inderect rocket arty can damage them quite significantly.
I'm against arty spam myself, but right now both prist\sexton arent sufficient enouth to be locked to 1 per player, while LeFH\ML-20\B4 are more then enouth just requare slight buffs\nerfs here and there to be fine.
And as I said, while they are mobile, its again very vunerable to dives, and this mobility outside of the situation where enemy might be out of range (but even in 3v3\4v4 possitioning howis around the middle side of your part of the map will give you almost half of the map coverage anyway) and to be less vunerable to call-ins but in return they are almost twise as easy to kill and get to.
it sounds like you simply dont understand how mobile arty works. its not MEANT to counter static arty. its meant to be MOBILE (the clue is right there in the name) they are mobile fire support, not set and forgets. like, if the enemy is countering your mobile howitzers with rocket arty... i dont even know... they should not be sitting in a place the enemy will even think of barraging.... you move them up to fire, then pull them back, and when the front moves so can they. its obvious why you discount the value of mobility if you are not moving them....
they are only as vulnerable as rocket arty (less so actually because of the extra health and range, again, it seems as if your issue with them stems from using them as they were static, granted if thats teh case, you can actually defend them in the exact same way! lay mines. but then you still have the added benifit of being able to retreat to base...
make em dive and punish them, they have tracks, use em.
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I think the bonus of being able to share them with teammates is enough to offset the fact that you'll unlock one anyway. I always felt airborne is more of a team game cmdr even without sharing dropped weapons. Using either of those weapons as a soviet player is hella fun, especially if you went t1
Good solution if they ever do feel like bundling them. A recon run like you said or maybe a pinning strafe would be a good new ability without being too much
I don't disagree. I'm not of the mind the commander NEEDS changed, but if it is that's the route I'd take. The commander looks weak when compared to some of the recently tweaked commanders (5 vehicles and 3 abilities for plus abilities on some of the vehicles example) and as I said, it's basically a 4 slot commander
Nobody wants to go back to the dark ages of the Jackson being the ultimate rng machine for late game usf, absolutely nobody. Just drop that idea of nerfing Jackson, mate.
There was more contributing than just ROF and damage. Accuracy and pen also play a role. As long as the Jackson remains unrefined it overshadows a huge number of doctrinal abilities.
You wouldn't build a doctrinal t34/76 that requires a full tech if you have non doc 85s outside the slimmest of circumstances, the same goes for the number of Sherman variants and the m10. They have no place because the Jackson does all that and more.
Even the su76 from the old soviet design with split t3/4 was competing directly with the su85 who did the job a whole lot better-as a result we never saw the su76 and CERTAINLY wouldn't have picked a commander with it if we still had to build the su85 building...
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I don't see any reason to. Airborne is a really good commander.
The drops keep the other three top tier abilities in check while still being good abilities themselves.
aye, but its effectively a 4 slot commander because you will have access to one or the other. nothing says the 5th ability would have to be a pershing or anything of that caliber, even a recon pass would be a nice addition (minor because the usf already have major recon, but handy to have in the pocket)
at any rate, i was more responding to your dilemma of bundling and was offering a potential solution should the bundle be the only thing that as holding you back |
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id be happy with just making them somewhat consistent... |
That's not possible, they both need a commander slot in order to be called in separately. Unless you'd want to have it as a bundled drop, but that would defeat the main purpose of these drops (that you can skip one tech and call in the respective team weapon with the commander).
could you unlock them together and tie them to the pathfinder beacon?
you would lose out on the flexibility of calling them in anywhere but would gain a slot. |
Because mobile howis, has much less range then static ones, meaning that they are tecnically much easier to conter and dive for. Not to mention, that countering thouse one arent requare specific commander choses to counter.
They might have more survivability on paper but is a bit of overextension. Yes, static ones are very easy to destroy but ONLY with commanders and muni to spend. When you dont have thouse options, they are litteraly uncounterable in teamgames.
Not to mention that they are more expensive and I litterary said that player could have 2 of them for the significant cost of pop-cap, considering all the advantages and disadvatanges.
Plus on top of that, unlike ML-20 and LeFH both Prist\Sexton arent presented in a shit load of commanders. And USF\UKS are lacking in terms strong non-doc inderect fire units, so they can have it a bit on easier side.
But sure, if you want to bring Prist\Sexton on the same perfomance level (or at least close to) of ML-20\LeFH it sure can be limited to 1 per player.
the mobility more than makes up for discrepancies. limit them to 1 and dont increase their pop. range or no there is no reason for one side to be able to field double the arty if we are hard capping them.
it would be like saying since allied TDs are so strong axis can have double the heavy tanks.
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For its price, role and timing the brum performs well. It's got reasonably short range so it has to put itself in the line of fire to do work.
What faction are you struggling against it with?
Points for admitting your own bias for what it's worth. |
Howis are easy to fix I've already had a proposal
1) Limit them to 1 per player (fixed problem of arty spam in teamgames).
2) Lower amount of shells per barrage, but lower cooldown on barrage.
3) Remove counter-barrage from LeFH. Both LeFH and ML-20 could have pressition barrage, only few shells but with lower scatter and lower range.
4) Add ability to self-destoy them, in order to be able to relocate them (like UKF emplacements).
5) Maybe even buff them slitgtly, because of all other changes.
Mobile howis like prist\Sextons
1) Same with barrages
2) Limit them to 2 per player
3) Increase their pop-cap, so if you go full mobile arty you sacrifice at least something.
Rocket arty:
Its alright, only Caliope armor and HP should be lowered to allow easier counter play. But its pretty much acknowledged by everyone.
theres a bit of a discrepancy here... the most survivable ones you are allowed double of? at the absolute most any axis team could field is 4 but the allies could field 8? what in the actual fuck? |
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