The point I have made about IRHT is that, if vision above 80 is a problem for IRHT (which is reckon vehicle) than it also is for SU-85 that can obtain above 80(arguably a bigger since it is a good TD and not reckon vehicle nor in need of secondary role)
its not that simple though. lots of things go into a unit, cost and timing is one of those. you can buy like, 5 IR-HT for the price of a single su85. the higher the cost, the more points you have allocated into the unit. so 80 sight may we4ll be OK on a non recon unit but not ok on a recon unit simply because of accessibility. again, i dont thinkl the su85 should self spot, but this is as apples to oranges as it gets.
pathfinders are also recon units, and they don't see 80 range, because theres more to it than job. |
Can the Brummbar actually score a "hit" on a vehicle? As in, is it able to succeed an accuracy check and have its shell become homing like a normal tank can?
I haven't ever seen it do so, despite it nominally having the same accuracy as most medium tanks, I assume this is because it's technically some sort of "indirect" unit... Or that I simply haven't observed it happen somehow.
ive definitely used it against armour when the chance was there (extra damage is extra damage) but i have no idea how its designed to aim. vipper probably does but its beyond the likes of me. i imagine like you said it performs via the same rules as indirect fire but i cant confirm |
People here are getting almost outraged if Sanders or someone else says that tracking is only an issue in very rare circumstances and then instantly insinuate that stating this equals defending it and most of all defending the whole CB itself. It's just nuts.
id say the "people making out sander is defending it" comes more from the repeated "it only saves 3 clicks" bit than the tracking. the tracking makes the claim even more Ludacris, but the claim itself shows as an apathy to the effects being able to remove enemy indirect without any work at all and greatly underplays the impact that being able to kill something like a katy or mortar or pak howi or mortar HT or zis has. without any input from the player. at all.
Back to topic, but I can only say what I have already said before:
The thread started out as purely focusing on the tracking. It then widened a bit to CB in general which is fine by me. But many here start mixing both issues into one another to somehow "prove" their point.
Most Allied units barrage for quite some time. I have not tested it in game, but judging from what Elchino wrote they will usually be counter barraged during their barrage or at the end of it. And assuming that the barrage finishes and the Katy/... starts moving before the LeFH is set up, there is a decent chance that the Katy will be in the cone half way, so the LeFH barrages an empty spot half way on the map. If your vehicle is still in range at this time. There's a lot of conditions and in most circumstances, shift queueing your unit back to base will do exactly what is should do.
thats it though, it doesnt JUST proc on katys. if you try to dispense smoke, itll get ya. if your mortar autofires, itll get ya. i dont think its reasonable to retreat your mortar every time it fires a smoke shell (cant do the whole barrage or itll get ya). forgot about a mortar and the enemy pushes near it? hope to hell it doesnt set up and fire a single shell at the enemy because if it did it may well be gone..
Is it still possible that you drive your Katy back to base to be barraged there? Yes, but rarely.
Is this whole tracking behaviour stupid? Absolutely.
Is it worth the drama? Nope.
its absolutely worth the drama because it can change the outcome of a game entirely. if i recall right the elephant and JT had their damage reduced so they couldn't 2 tap tanks from a mile away if they fell in their sights, yet this is capable of deleting units without them even r4evealing themselves and it can happen anywhere on the map. and running away isn't even a guarantee!
This behaviour has only been discovered just now. But suddenly this is used to state that CB is OP because it tracked (no personal statement of mine on CB intended here). But this OPness went unnoticed for years, so it probably is not as a huge deal as some make it out to be.
when it came tom light matters not, for a long time people didnt think the CB was worth it because it stopped the lefh from barraging and *ahem* you could just do the same thing with only 3 clicks anwyays. tha has proven to not be so and thusly its being blown properly into proportion. a game based on micro and unit preservation that can delete units without any micro deserves all the attention it can get until its changed.
So to sum it up:
Tracking is very stupid, CB a bit stupid, LeFH ability could use a redesign and all of this is blown out of proportion.
again i disagree. we need to make a stink about it so that it DEOS get cahnged and we need to show how broken it is or we might end up with a 5 fuel increase and 1 less shell on CB as a token "shut up now" nerf, especially if sanders view that its only saving a few clicks holds sway on the balance team. knocking off full health units with no effort is a problem, regardless of how. doing so even after counter measures are taken on those that can still doesnt protect you against a no micro counter attack is worth blowing up.
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Brummbar have better penetration then Soviet best non-doc tank.
theres more to AT than just pen. rof and velocity are incredibly important. accuracy too. turns out all the pen in the world means nothing if you cvant actually hit the enemy or follow up (looking at you old is-2 gunner) |
Major is just too overpriced and offer too little in terms of tier offering yes USF tanks are very powerful in right hands and major's abalites can offer good ultility but its simply not enough
recon, a retreat point and arty isnt good enough? what in the cinnamon toast fuck are you on about? all of his abilities get better with vet as well, extra planes for the recon, extra shells for the arty and the ability to lock down and thus prevent the enemy from capping points at vet 3.... all ion a free unit!
but perhaps there can be an alternative solution
1 reduce the major's cost to 90 fuel but add a side teching called chrysler defense aresnal it already exists too. so you see when im not sweating in 1 vs 1 and raging i hop into a all units 180 mod and a bridge map when you first activate the major you can only bulid M10 M8 and Veichle crews to get anything more powerful chrysler defense arsenal needed to be upgraded
why? usf doesnt need more tiered teching, especially not more units in it.
2 add a tier 4 elite infantry squad to USF this is something they despeartely need in order to remain compettive in late game im thinking of removing the rangers from the doctrine and add them to BCP then the side tech to upgrade the tanks
again.... why? do rifles suddenly not have access to BARs? usf is designed so that vetted and armed rifles ARE your elite infantry. they wont 1v1 obers, but anything less they will make into meat. if you feel rifles are not sufficient, id sooner officers be made into an elite unit anolog than adding a very strong doctrinal unit to their core
same way OKW flak HQ has to while i understand the circumstances are different that OKW flak upgrade to give players a chance to kill it so it cant lock a cut off point down but Major is simply not worth paying 300 MP and 55 fuel or 500 MP and 70 fuel just to enable and then 190 MP to 120 fuel
yes, the circumstances are different. wildy different... and thats about all the sense i made out of that last line.... usf teching is roughly in line with all other factions. they have good power spikes afforded by the free officers and great vehicles as well as the crew mechanic that m4easnt hey dont have to bog themselves down with co9mbat ineffective engineers. |
quite simply- factional design is the reason. ost has been designed entierly with the idea of squishy infantry. you cant simply remove that and expect there not to be waves. look at how much salt comes from an extra man on cons, who are SUPPOSED to be durable, and imagine that on a squad that isnt. an extra model is a MASSIVE change and part of the reason the brits will never be balanced. you cant just slap an extra man on and call it a day. especially not when the entire identity and balance of a faction is based around specifically NOT having extra men to slap on |
Yes it has been nerfed because its sight was considered to be a problem although sight is all what the unit brings.
which is why i belive the unit was neutered. it no longer brings anything to the table and if it was flat out removed it would see n o less useage than its current form. it needws abilities or some sort of SOMETHING to justify evr building. even an aura of 1.01 accuracy buff would bring more to the table than it does now
If the sight of IRHT was problem having a TD with access to superior sight is actually a bigger issue.
there is more to the equation than that and you know it. the old IRHT wasnt just sight, it was literally seeing through sight blockers. it was also cheaper than dirt and some of its cost could be reclaimed if it was killed.
i AGREE the su85 shouldn't self spot, but lets not pretend that the problems with the units are transferable.
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Isn't the AT strafe the same as the one from CAS? The one that has artillery flares and takes 5 seconds to arrive and is dodged by clicking 10 pixels to the right?
i believe it is, however its area of effect is rather decent and its damage is fantastic.
i dont really think there ios much issue in the ability though- but the ost "nerf" is more of a commander rabalnce than a nerf when compared to the soviet one as the AT strafe is better in some scenarios than the stuka nuka whereas the soviet one is simply worse in every way to the il-2 bombs |
True. It actually has superior vision to that of the IRHT...
To be fair the IRHT has been nerfed so hard its effectively been removed from the game so its not a great metric. |
Hi there. I've just come across this thread. This is my thought process with the LeFH's ability to track
And thank you for posting my test video to bring light onto the issue my friends and I discovered. Appreciate it. I welcome a discussion.
An encounter with the tracking in a live game
British Counter Battery to compare
The shell scatter as requested to test by /u/gtacleveland
I think what's important to remeber as that Lefh destroyed your Katy after it fired and retreated a ways behind into the fog of war is that a player could have done that exact same thing with but 3 clicks from rotation towards the Katy, to guessing exactly to where you would retreat it, in the fog of war. 3 clicks elsewhere. that's all the enemy gained as they destroyed your 85 fuel unit undoubtedly without even knowing they did it. |