For the Churchill:
I reckon shift 60 armour from the back to the front (300/120), reduce hit points to 800, 0.8 received damage.
That gives it 1000 effective hit points and +25% repair speed. That's a seven shot kill from an AT gun, same as the IS-2, Tiger, Croc and AVRE. (The live Churchill is a nine shot kill).
Move the smoke shell from the Crocodile to the standard Churchill. The Croc has a flamer: it doesn't need to blind anti-tank guns. The standard Churchill, however, would definitely appreciate it.
For the KV-1:
Give it the same armour values as the KV-2: 300 frontal, 120 rear. That makes the KV-1 a little better at range, but rewards flanking it.
I like these changes. |
by that logic shouldn't the panther have superb rear armor ? as it's meant to counter them ?
It has other advantages to ensure that. Like speed (something the church doesn't) and range (something else the church doesn't)the churchs whole design is being in the fight being shit at by everything, thus the health pool and all round armour. The panther has all the tools to ensure that its not being shot at, and if it is then it's got a solid chance to deflect, and of it doesn't its got a decent health pool. And if that fails it will likely blitz the fuck out of there..
There are many ways to screw a cat. The church does it up front and violently, the panther is a bit more subtle about it. |
Churchill has some unusual values:
Accel: 3.5 simply too high
Rotate: 32 simply too high
Rear Armor: 180 one of the highest in the game
Health: 1400 one of the highest in the game
One of the few tank with stock defensive smoke
In addition:
It has too much shock value.
Lacks a clear role and counter.
My suggestion would be to fix acceleration, rotation and rear.
To reduce shock value by adjusting base and veterancy bonuses so that its get bonuses suitable for the role including HP and Armor.
To give a role to the unit and the right tools for that role. For instance the unit can now both deal with mediums and ATG easily.
A more interesting design imo would be that of infatry support tank.
That would include reducing penetration so that the unit is weaker vs enemy tanks, smoke rounds so it silence hmg, rear smoke similar to the one that was available to commando providing cover status but not cover bonuses so that UKF infatry can fire as if in cover, maybe abilities similar to "Inspire: Infantry"
This design aims to have Churchill soaking damage while infatry dishing out the damage.
I think I agree on making it more of a proper "infantry support tank" with abilities. Inspire makes more sense on the church than it does in the KV-2 and kv-8 |
This is too much IMO and decreasing it's price is not a good trade-off. It needs stat buffs if you're gonna nerf it's health to other heavy levels while it still has 240 armor. Otherwise it brings nothing to the table.
I don't understand the need for a limit if you've taken away it's only strength
It would be a starting step. We can't balance it all in one go imo. I'd see an armour increase if needed, but something costing as much as a premium medium but the health pool of a heavy tank could be absolutely worth being only 1,even at 240 armour. You would likley see one every anvil game, but only 1 and balance could be tuned for that. Coupled with call in cooldown starting only after unit death instead of on call in and it might balance it out enough. Obviously this is all theory crafting but I think it could be a good 1st step. |
IRHT should be doctrinal. Idk what they should replace it with in BGHQ, but that type of unit should not be stock, period. Unless its re-designed so that the sweeping has a recurring muni cost or something like that.
I would say manpower tank hunter to give mech a bit more infantry focused defensive power and also open up a chance to work on the rak.
Also, I once suggested an old Soviet self repair style muni drain when active
IMO that would have been a more interesting way to rebalance the OKW- have all their powerful abilities and units, but have them inflict a resource strain instead of simply always having them. |
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Right well.. On topic we still come to the issue of meatshields. They need to be difficult to dislodge but also dangerous enough to WANT to dislodge (live cons suffer from this atm. Durable but no teeth) if it's not difficult to dislodge then it's not a meatshield (see the old kv-1 for details) if it's too hard to push off then it's OP (see the old KT)
Its a difficult road to balancing this type of unit. Imo it's made more difficult by being able to potentially field multiple. A single churchill is a pain, a pair is unstoppable. I realise that's a load of resources but it's in the realm of possibility.
I would:
Drop health to standard heavy tank levels-even as a meatshield it is a bit forgiving
Limit it to 1 on field as a call in (similar treatment to comet to make it attractive) once anvil is etched-its easier to balance knowing it can't be massed
Reduce popcap and price to compensate-this makes it easier to make it part of your army without being either dead weight or absolutely overpowered
Go from there and see if it needs more changes. |
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The problem with autofire indirect will always be a problem unless they are changed from the roots up. You could have a mortar have a scatter of 25 and only fire one shell every minute on auto fire and it could STILL land a wipe that the other player couldn't possibly save and swing the balance of power with no input. Scatter and ROF will gut the unit and reduce the frequency of the problem but not fix it. You need to reduce the potency without simply making the dice roll harder, because in the end its still a dice roll.
To fix it there needs to be some form of damage limiter when auto firing. There is no alternative to that if you want to address this issue. The question needs to how to keep the unit relevant despite that change and what specifically that change needs to be. |
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Anyone that thinks the FHT needs smoke very much does not have balance's best interests at heart. |
I support this idea but, I'd prefer to see the mortar come as an upgrade rather than as the default variant. OKW needs a transport unit.
I don't support the medic upgrade - OKW already has sufficient healing options.
OKW does not need a transport unit. Know why? Because sturms stg volks and Obers. Being able to just drop off high DPS units like that with no regard for balancing factors could be catastrophic.
It would be like just shoe horning in an FRP to the Soviet. You can't simply look at what they don't have and disregard what they do to make up for it. |
While I agree with the part of this, I don't think a model-cap would fix it. The problem isn't entirely the unlikely wipes; it's getting grens down to 50-60% HP (but with all 4 models still up) that leaves them incredibly vulnerable to infantry pushes, due to WFA's incredibly high infantry DPS.
Grens are actually in a unique position to be able to fix that themselves with their vet 1 med kits. It's likley the very purpose of it. Reducing casting time (I mean brits can AOE heal their whole fucking army on the move for Christ's sake) would go a long way for making it more attractive I think. |
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